Swordsman Archive
Thread: Critical strike/ head hit
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invaliduser
Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:00 am
#1
Hi all.
My alt's build is MShipwright (I know, dont ask!), TKM and he can get 2 full lines of swords.
One of these will be xx4x to get armour break. The other two choices I have are
x4xx (for heat hit and +20 melee speed) OR xxx4 (for +60 melee accuracy and critical strike)
now..after doing a little testing with the 'non-improved' versions of these two attacks, I consistently found that I did 10-15% MORE damage with head hit than with critical strike (remember these are the BASE versions of these attacks). I also felt HH had a shorter recycle time than Crit strike.
Can any MS help by confirming if my impression that advanced head hit (the skill gained at xx4x) is slightly quicker and perhaps does as much, or more damage than adv critical strike? - I caurrently cant tell as I cant get both in my remplate to compare...
if you were to choose between x4xx (head hit) and xxx4 (critical strike), which would you go for?
many thanks all...as an old-time MHSwordsman, it was nice to swing some big cleavers again earlier today
My alt's build is MShipwright (I know, dont ask!), TKM and he can get 2 full lines of swords.
One of these will be xx4x to get armour break. The other two choices I have are
x4xx (for heat hit and +20 melee speed) OR xxx4 (for +60 melee accuracy and critical strike)
now..after doing a little testing with the 'non-improved' versions of these two attacks, I consistently found that I did 10-15% MORE damage with head hit than with critical strike (remember these are the BASE versions of these attacks). I also felt HH had a shorter recycle time than Crit strike.
Can any MS help by confirming if my impression that advanced head hit (the skill gained at xx4x) is slightly quicker and perhaps does as much, or more damage than adv critical strike? - I caurrently cant tell as I cant get both in my remplate to compare...
if you were to choose between x4xx (head hit) and xxx4 (critical strike), which would you go for?
many thanks all...as an old-time MHSwordsman, it was nice to swing some big cleavers again earlier today
bikebum
Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:21 am
#2
Okay, my short answer is go with Head Hit. For my long answer I will include more info cut out of one of my previous posts on TKM board:
Here is my testing on a few specials I have been looking at recently. This data is from fighting CL82 lesser plains bols and I factored out their armor absorb and did not use any debuffs (leg sweep, blind, dizzy, break armor). My templates were TKM, Doc 4xx4, Sword 4144 (for improved power attack) and then Sword 1444 (for improved head hit). I never equipped a weapon and Melee Hit unarmed *always* landed for 539 damage and I used it as my base (1.0) multiplier.
Advanced Combo = 808 damage / 1.5x
Melee Strike = 593 / 1.1x
Power Attack = 916 / 1.71x
Improved Power Attack = 1024 / 1.9x
Head Hit = 862 / 1.6x
Imp Head Hit = 916 / 1.71x
Improved Crit = 970 / 1.8x
If you pay attention to action cost, IMO the most efficient special we can use while unarmedis Improved Head hit. It uses significantly less action than the other high damage specials (both power attacks, imp crit, and adv combo). With the studying I have been doing lately, I have decided that if I drop Msword I will go with Sword 1444 and default melee with melee hit, special attack mostly with Imp Head Hit, and when mobs are knocked down use Improved Crit.
Note that I don't have the high end knuckles so I cannot compair, however they should scale with my unarmed damage at exactly the same rate as above. My next test is going to be with my Scythe equipped and after that I may test MSword with my powerhammer.
Before someone flames me for my data not being the same as theirs, do a log yourself and see what you get. FYI, here are some clips from my logs so you can see where I got my numbers:
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Melee Strike and hits for 313 points (313 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 279 points out of 593 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Melee Hit and hits for 284 points (284 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 254 points out of 539 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Melee Hit and hits for 284 points (284 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 254 points out of 539 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Improved Power Attack and hits for 540 points (540 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 483 points out of 1024 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Improved Critical Strike and hits for 639 points (639 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 572 points out of 970 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Head Hit and hits for 455 points (455 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 406 points out of 862 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Advanced Combo Attack and hits for 141 points (141 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 381 points out of 808 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Improved Head Hit and hits for 656 points (656 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 259 points out of 916 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Power Attack and hits for 483 points (483 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 432 points out of 916 possible points of damage.
Something to take note of is that Improved Head Hit consistantly hit for more damage after armor than Improved Power Attack even though Imp Power Attack had a higher *possible* damage. Does anyone know if this is working as intended? Is Imp Head Hit supposed to have some bonus versus armor?
invaliduser
Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:30 am
#3
many thanks Sir /deepbow
a really speedy and imformative reply
the only remaining issue therefore is whether losing 50 accuracy (and scythe certifcation) to gain +10 speed would alter the equation in favour of xxx4 - whilst my main weapon will be some nightblades, I do have some 800dame scythes from my pre-CURB days many monns ago as a MHS and wondered if they would play a factor in increasing damage somewhat....
LOL - just noticed I need to update my forum badge...cant seem to bring myself to drop the old commando badge though
a really speedy and imformative reply
the only remaining issue therefore is whether losing 50 accuracy (and scythe certifcation) to gain +10 speed would alter the equation in favour of xxx4 - whilst my main weapon will be some nightblades, I do have some 800dame scythes from my pre-CURB days many monns ago as a MHS and wondered if they would play a factor in increasing damage somewhat....
LOL - just noticed I need to update my forum badge...cant seem to bring myself to drop the old commando badge though
Message Edited by invaliduser on 06-25-2005 03:32 PM
bikebum
Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:38 am
#4
The Scythe is an aweful expensive weapon to have to depend on to get your damage... As the build includes TKM, I would consider just going unarmed and using sword moves for damage. I am assuming with Shipwright in his template he is not planning on going out to solo Krayts and such, so over time I think armor break (xx3x) is going to give most bang for the skillpoint. Bear in mind that he could also go x4x4 to test stuff and then the xx4x line will be easy to grind up while testing and he can change if he chooses while going x44x will result in a harder climb through combat exp to change to x4x4.
MasterGrail
Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:23 am
#5
Go with xxx4 and pick up the imp crit strike imo. Yes it costs more action to use than head hit, but the test above fails to show when it crits, which for me is rather often. On crit attacks i come close to doubling my damage from any other special attack i have. Also, that extra 60 accuracy is BIG. Not only will you land attacks more often, but your accuracy is also factored into your dmg.
Alternate Imp crit strike and melee strike, and swap out melee strike with power shot when your target in knocked down and you should find a good mix of dmg and action use.
Alternate Imp crit strike and melee strike, and swap out melee strike with power shot when your target in knocked down and you should find a good mix of dmg and action use.
bikebum
Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:45 pm
#6
MasterGrail wrote:
Go with xxx4 and pick up the imp crit strike imo. Yes it costs more action to use than head hit, but the test above fails to show when it crits, which for me is rather often. On crit attacks i come close to doubling my damage from any other special attack i have. Also, that extra 60 accuracy is BIG. Not only will you land attacks more often, but your accuracy is also factored into your dmg.
Alternate Imp crit strike and melee strike, and swap out melee strike with power shot when your target in knocked down and you should find a good mix of dmg and action use.
It is impossible to accurately access the impact of improved crit strike. During my testing on 4 bol spawns for the data I got above, I did not get one critical. That is not a single crit my killing 36 bols. The action use for Imp Crit Stike is atrocious and based on the tests I did, it does not warrant being considered over Improved Head Hit. Imp Head Hit often lands for nearly the same damage (or more) after armor is factored in (this may be a bug, but it happens), and costs significantly less in action. Note the damages taken by the Bol vs the possible damage:
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Improved Critical Strike and hits for 639 points (639 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 572 points out of 970 possible points of damage.
[Combat] Karlos attacks a lesser plains bol with Improved Head Hit and hits for 656 points (656 points of kinetic damage). A lesser plains bol's armor absorbed 259 points out of 916 possible points of damage.
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