Swordsman Archive

Okay, I am new to swordsman after leaving it for TKA for a while. Now I am coming back and seeing everyone complain about how much better TKA is and I want to set things strait.

There is one *MAJOR* factor which people don't realise when looking at Pikeman and Swordsman when compared to TKA. Armor Piercing. This is probably the biggest bonus that pikeman and swordsman get. You know why? Because they both get AP:2 weapons and TKA is limited to AP:1. You may ask why this is such a big advantage? It's because player armor can only go up to AR:1, so with an AP:2 weapon you will always do full damage, ie: as if they had no armor. Their over priced suit of composite armor will do jack against an AP:2 weapon.

Also, when you look at damage in the combat window that is *BEFORE ARMOR*. So sure, TKA master looks like he is doing 1000 damage per hit with UAH3 and bare fisted. But in reality, against an AR:1 creature with 50% resist he is only doing 250 damage per hit. And guess what, our AP:2 attackers doing 500 damage / hit in the combat window are really doing 625 damage per hit. If the same creature has AR:2 then TKA would be doing 125 damage per hit while AP:2 does 250 damage per hit. This is assuming we are hitting half as hard (base damage) as the TKA!

Yes, TKA can spam specials non-stop barefisted for minimal HAM costs and once per second. However, if you are looking at high end content you have to look at both sides. When you hit master swordsman you should go out and get skill enhancers that boost your speed to +100 (once per second for all specials). Next you should get a top notch weapon, and finally, you should go get yourself some Ryshcate and Breath of Heaven (Chef food). By eating 2 Ryshcate and 1 Breath of Heaven you should be able to buff your HAM cost stats (strength /quickness / focus) to over 1558 (magic number). Once you are over 1558 all specials *COST 0 HAM*. With all this you will be attacking at once per second, doing specials (2HH3) non stop for no HAM cost.

Now, assuming you have done all the above, and the TKA has done all the above, you will be doing _way_ more damage than the TKA, and after you take into consideration your AP you will be doing godly amounts.

Oh, and TKA doesn't get any bleeds, so once they get KOed combat is over for them. Swordsman have mind bleed so even if you do get KOed there is still a chance that your bleed could save you.

-Micah

Resists still affect your weapon damage if you use a ap2 weapon.

From what iunderstand from reading the dev's armor guide....

500*0.25 (because it your ap is one higher) * 0.5 (50% resist) = 312.5 damage.

oh and you say you are talking about high end and yet the tka isn't using a vibro knuckler...

Also, ap is currently bugged in that if something is vulnerable to your damage type, your ap value is basically thrown out. This means you get no damage bonus at all against people not using armor.

TKAs do as much damage as we do, hit faster, are more accurate, have better defences and they have special abilities (power boost for example). TKAs are the bh of the melee world.

>Resists still affect your weapon damage if you use a ap2 weapon.

They do not. If your AP is higher than their AR then resists have no effect. If your AP is the same as or lower than their AR then resists take effect. If your AP is lower than their AR then you suffer reduction from the resist as well as the 50% reduction from low AP. I have done extensive in-game testing on this with hundreds of datapoints and the calculations work out exactly. If you doubt, find a friend with AR:1 armor (all player armor) and hit / shoot at him with an AP:0, AP:1, AP:2, and AP:3 weapon. You will see the damage before armor, but his combat window will show how much damage his armor soaked up. When you hit with AP:2 and AP:3 his armor will soak up nothing. Also watch the numbers above creature heads as you fight with various AP weapons and compare that number to to the number in the combat window using the formula I mentioned and you will fand that it works out.

>500*1.25 (because it your ap is one higher) * 0.5 (50% resist) = 312.5 damage.

See above, this is not the case.
500*1.25 = 625
If they had the same AP as you then it would be:
500*1.00 * 0.5 = 250

>oh and you say you are talking about high end and yet the tka isn't using a vibro knuckler...

When I said "Yes, TKA can spam specials non-stop barefisted for minimal HAM costs and once per second." I was paraphrasing what the majority of complaints are. When I refer to comparing high end PvP of Swordsman and TKA I do recommend that you do the tests against a TKA with top-of-the-line VKs and the same buffs as the swordsman.

>Also, ap is currently bugged in that if something is vulnerable to your damage type, your ap value is basically thrown out. This means you get no damage bonus at all against people not using armor.

I am unaware of this bug and unless it's a new one with the patch last night I don't think it exists, I will look into it in the next couple days.

>TKAs do as much damage as we do, hit faster, are more accurate, have better defences and they have special abilities (power boost for example). TKAs are the bh of the melee world.

Assuming that both TKA and Swordsman are unbuffed masters then I agree that the TKA is slightly more powerfull. However, when they are both buffed and skill enhanced the TKA loses the advantage of speed and HAM costs. As for accuracy and defenses, I have noticed that these are pretty irrelivant overall. The swordsman will miss a tad more than TKA, but it's not that big of a difference in the long run. As for special attacks, yes, dizzy/KD needs fixing, it's too much of a game ender, but TKA doesn't get bleed while swordsman get mind bleed.
A mind bleed is a guarenteed KO because bleed damage is:
A) not effected by armor; your full damage is bled every tick
B) stacks with other bleeds; you can stack Mind Hit 1 and Mind Hit 2 (not to mention rifleman bleeds)
C) is damage over time; 2 minute duration for MH1, 3 minutes for MH2 and ticks every 20 seconds
If you hit someone for a125 damage bleed with MH1 they will take125 damage every 20 seconds for 2 minutes giving you a total damage of750 damage. If you follow that with a MH2 for 250 damage every 20 seconds for 3 minutes that is another2250 damage. That is a total of 3000 mind damage from just 2 swings. Even if you do die he is still going to get KOed. This is why you always travel with a covert faction buddy, so they can come in and do the cleanup work for you after you die.

One other note I just found out. The power hammer is Blast damage! So it does 100% damage to AT-STs, plus many creatures have vulnerabilities to blast damage!

-Micah

>TKAs and fencers still do more damage at master than pikemen and swordsman because of the speed bonuses

As I mentioned before, unbuffed and un-enhanced TKA is better than swordsman. But if TKA and swordsman have skill enhancers and food buffs the swordsman easily outdoes the TKA. If I am not mistaken swordsman get up to +75 speed, so all you need is +25 speed skill enhancers to reach max (one hit per second using slowest weapon and specials). +25 speed enhancers is easy to fit in the available 8 sockets you have. Plus you have room for swordsman toughness, melee defense, or accuracy. +speed enhancers don't do any good for TKA because +100 is the max, everything after that is wasted.

-Micah

Swordsmen have nothing except a mind bleed. TKA have a million other things to over compensate.

Accuracy doesn't matter? You've gotta be kidding. Power hammers miss 20-30% more than a VK.

TKA will kill youvia KD/dizzy long before that bleed.Even if that were taken away theystill do more damage.Then they can sit and meditate or apply first aid.

And citing the fact that swordsman can beat up atsts better has absolutely nothing to do with the class being more powerful. After all, how many minutes of your swordsman's 1000 hour life was spend fighting an atst? Answer that questoin.

If you have to stretch to say, well, in this PARTICULAR situation A is stronger than B.

That's proof right there that A is weaker than B.

TKA > Swordsman. End of story. Compare the base classes.

+25 drop off of Dark Jedi
+17 drop off of named force sensative NPCs
+10 drop off of normal force sensative NPCs
You can get +1 through +5 off of random NPC spawns in the wilderness on newbie planets
Not sure what to fight in order to get +5 through +10...

Anyway, you have a total of 32 sockets available (human) and all you need is +25, so you could just get a bunch of +1s and you can get those on the bazaar on a daily basis.

I've played both a master swordsman and a TKM, and TKM > swordsman hands down.

Don't believe me? Try the following scenario. An overt TKM tookdown two overt rebels, one a pistoleer, the other a swordsman, at the same time. He dizzied both of them, KDed both of them, and they fell over trying to get back up. He then proceeded to spam UH3 for 450 damage every second and deathblew them both before the swordsman bleeds even ticked once. Then he proceeded to meditate the bleeds away before they ticked a second time. Bystanders were laughing at how easy the fight was for him.

I already said that dizzy/KD is too powerfull, in reality it's just dizzy that is overpowered, not KD. If you could somehow get dizzy off a posture change would work just as well as a KD.

The thing about the AT-ST was just an interesting tidbit. You are correct that it has nothing to do with PvP or the power of swordsman.

Do you miss 20%-30% of the time at master swordsman? My master pikeman had an LVA that was -57 to hit and I didn't miss that much. Maybe swordsman get less accuracy, or perhaps melee defense matters more than I thought. this is definately an issue that I will look into.

In my opinion mind bleed compensates for nearly everything. Assuming you travel with a covert faction mate, you either A) win the fight, or B) you lose the fight but he dies too. Personaly, I don't care if I die, as long as they die too.

>If you have to stretch to say, well, in this PARTICULAR situation A is stronger than B.

This is not a small particular situation. Once you hit master and you start to look for PvP you should _always_ be fully doctor buffed (2 hour duration, it's not like you have to keep getting it every 30 minutes) and always have Ryshcate / BoH hotkeyed (you can buy crates of them at a time, what else will you spend money on at master level?) and you should _always_ be wearing your +25 speed clothing. There is no reason not to if you are overt.

I could understand your scepticism if this were a rare occurance, but if you are running around looking for PvP unbuffed you are asking to die. I have done it before, but I planned on dying, my goal was to maybe kill an AFK or two before I dropped, nothing more.

>TKA > Swordsman. End of story. Compare the base classes.

I am comparing the classes, I have produced statistics, numbers, formula, etc. Computer games all come down to math, and I have produced all the math.

DISCLAIMER:
Dizzy is god in PvP! It should be taken out for all classes (TKA, Fencer, Carbine, etc.) These numbers assume that PvP will be balanced at some point. If it's not, then I agree with everyone here, TKA rule the brawler world. But that aside, assuming it's fixed, swordsman are better in the long game (after you are maxed out, have money to spend, and are looking for high level PvP).