Swordsman Archive
Thread: Whats with our weapons?
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-Dax
Tue May 17, 2005 12:14 pm
#1
Been seeing quite a few of the new swords lately,both 1 handed, both better dps (and sac)than the average hammer. As far as i know the sith sword hasnt been found, so maybe im jumping the gun a bit, it better have some damn nice stats though (i read it didnt). As i said in another thread master swords is just about worthless, even more so now. A dabbler can get our specials, armor break isbetter than advanced armor break, now a fencer weapon is better than our best weapon (and doesnt even require a skill). There are probably alot of 310+ dps hammers out there, but i doubt many have less than 100 sac. To get those kind of stats now would take some very nice bones, which on most servers are hard to get. Anyone can go do the quests for the reward swords. Even if the sith sword is comparable to these its nowhere near as easy to find or we would have seen it already. All in all i think we got the shaft. Im very close to a 0404 swords build. They need to make master swords mean something.
Ill link the new swords in case anyone hasnt seen them yet.
http://img14.echo.cx/my.php?image=screenshot01837zp.jpg
http://img14.echo.cx/my.php?image=screenshot01805br.jpg
My best hammer is 2.74 speed, 576-1134 dmg, 312 dps, 124 sac (my old hammer was 104 sac, there is a VERY big difference, this one is actually worse than a 289 dps, 104 sac hammer in alot of situations). Made with a 107-174 bone, post cu. Pretty rare and kinda expensive (at least on my server, paid 1.5M for it). In order to bring the sac down there would be a pretty big dps reduction, so to get comparable stats to those swords would take some damn nice bones.
Message Edited by -Dax on 05-17-2005 12:15 AM
birdnosehk
Wed May 18, 2005 4:56 pm
#2
This is what i posted in the "3 questions" thread to questions 1 and 3. What sucks with SM and what would I change post CU:
Our damage output is way too low! Until today I have used MSwords but now I respected to Mpike. I was shocked that the DPS I did with Pikeman was just a tad (20 or so) lower than with my Powerhammer! My hammer had about 300 base and the Vibrolance as well adding up to about the same modified DPS.
We are supposed to be the highdamage profession right? Then why the heck are all the quest-reward-weapons on kahyyyk non-swordsman and why one earth do half of them outdamage my powerhammer or my acid sword? A carbine with 323 base DPS? For the love of god! Plus that is RANGED too!!! Right now the reward weapons are the best weapons in the game apart from a very few rare uber crafted ones. But since everyone doing the missions can get them our damage output is just average compared to the other professions.
Convert our weapons to do a LOT more damage compared to all other professions and give them a master cert. Doing the same amount of damage as a Rifleman is not enough since we have the extreme disadvantage of being melee. In PvP we have to be able to do more damage once we succeed (if you do at all with root) to actually get into combat range since we take a hell of a beating until we get there.
Edited since I discovered even the Acid Swords is 1h :/
Our damage output is way too low! Until today I have used MSwords but now I respected to Mpike. I was shocked that the DPS I did with Pikeman was just a tad (20 or so) lower than with my Powerhammer! My hammer had about 300 base and the Vibrolance as well adding up to about the same modified DPS.
We are supposed to be the highdamage profession right? Then why the heck are all the quest-reward-weapons on kahyyyk non-swordsman and why one earth do half of them outdamage my powerhammer or my acid sword? A carbine with 323 base DPS? For the love of god! Plus that is RANGED too!!! Right now the reward weapons are the best weapons in the game apart from a very few rare uber crafted ones. But since everyone doing the missions can get them our damage output is just average compared to the other professions.
Convert our weapons to do a LOT more damage compared to all other professions and give them a master cert. Doing the same amount of damage as a Rifleman is not enough since we have the extreme disadvantage of being melee. In PvP we have to be able to do more damage once we succeed (if you do at all with root) to actually get into combat range since we take a hell of a beating until we get there.
Edited since I discovered even the Acid Swords is 1h :/
Message Edited by birdnosehk on 05-20-2005 12:07 PM
KreyMerr
Wed May 18, 2005 7:29 pm
#3
noted and mentioned to the devs a while ago. so far they havnt really shared anything with me, so it might be a bumpy ride.
raider7734
Thu May 19, 2005 1:46 pm
#4
We are being held back by the lack of a *good*post-CU weapon. The hammer is not bad, but is lagging somewhat in 'dps'. Evenworse,the Max Damage / SAC ratio is awful. This is importantin sustained fighting, if you have a lousy damage / SAC ratio, you spend much more of your time idling on Melee Hit instead of doing real damage with the power moves.
The best widely available hammers on my server are running about 292 'dps' with 120 SAC. This is a really good hammer just for the 120 SAC, most others out there are 125 and 130 SAC. Anyway,Max Damage / SAC is 8.49
Now compare that to a carbineNym handedme yesterday.All I had to do was shuttle down to a bunker, kill five level-11 npcs,pick up two quest items, and turn them in..
Nym's Slug-thrower Carbine
CL 50 Open Cert
speed 2.25
Damage 357-713
Acid Elemental 174
Base DPS 315
range 0-50
SAC 81
speed 2.25
Damage 357-713
Acid Elemental 174
Base DPS 315
range 0-50
SAC 81
You'll notice the 'dps' is great, but even better, look at (Max Damage+Elemental) / SAC:10.95. This carbine, that I earned for running a trivial errand,is 29% more efficient at converting Action into Damage than the best hammers weaponsmiths are turning out...this is messed up.
Now I don't want to hear any stupidity about how I can't compare a carbine to a hammer...I just did. Carbineers are damage dealers too, they can stack up speed just like we can, and they get moves with x1.9 damage multipliers just like we do, so save it!kthx
So let me just recommend that the devs get on the ball and add aSWORD like this to the game.. either craftable oreasily obtainable thru a repeatable quest like the above carbine:
CortosisCleaver
Cert: Master Swordsman
speed 2.5
Max Damage 985
Max Damage 985
range 0-5
SAC 90
SAC 90
That puts usjust on par with Carbineers, who are supposed to be a 4 in the Damage department.
To make us a 5 in Damage output like we're supposed to be,make the Max damage 1200..That's what weNEED to fulfill our role in the CU.
Edit - changedsuggested weapon stats because only Max damage, speed, and SAC matter
Message Edited by raider7734 on 05-23-2005 10:01 AM
ZyklonBlack
Mon May 23, 2005 3:29 am
#5
I totally agree. We have terrible SAC to Damage ratio. I have a MBH/MM/Mcarb on another server, and he dishes the damage so much more efficiently than my stacked MS/TKM/MB/Pike dabbler. Seriously, the weapons are the problem, not the profession. This class is seriously lacking without better weapons.
Ciao
Mon May 23, 2005 8:43 pm
#6
Hmmm,
Let me try.
I think the skills are what determine our strength in attacks not so much our weapons. So you can get a pike or fencer weapon and use the swordsman attacks
Also, if you are rooted, pull out that Nym slugthrower. It has no class restrictions just lvl. I have seen jedi pull out pistols, etc. I plan on doing the same. If i get rooted, well at least i can poor some fire on them.
-Dax
Wed May 25, 2005 9:23 am
#7
Ciao wrote:
Hmmm,
Let me try.
I think the skills are what determine our strength in attacks not so much our weapons. So you can get a pike or fencer weapon and use the swordsman attacks
As it currently is thats the best way to get the most damage, and that just isnt right. You shouldnt have to spec into the crowd control profession to get the best weapon (best being low sac with high damage). What you basicaly said (and i agree with), 0404 swords is the only thing about us that makes us the damage dealing class. A master swordsman has no (damage) advantages over 0404. The damage would actually be less at master since armor break is more effective with the lower ranks. Ive heard/read from lots of people that pikes are comparable to swords in damage, add in our specials and they surpass us. Reverse that and it simply would not be true.
Vitruvian22
Wed May 25, 2005 9:59 am
#8
I hate this! According to the SOE SWG website "The Swordsman is the heavy hitting melee damage dealer. Up close there is no one that can dish it out like a Swordsman."
Why then does the Sith sword (it is called the NK - Executer on my server for some reason, unless they are 2 diff swords) have a base dps of 276 and the Blade of Nyenthi'Oris (a one handed sword that requires no certificaion to use except for combat lvl) have a base dps of 312, and the Junti Mace (another one handed melee weapon requiring no cert) have a base dps of 308. Something is very wrong here.
This same webpage gives Swordsman a (5) Very Strong Offense, and Fencer a (4) Strong Offense.
Unless the Kashyyyk Sword (which as yet to surface) has a base dps of 400, the mods need to rewrite/edit their synopsis of Swordsman post CU.
Hard to not let this really piss me off!
Vitruvian22
Wed May 25, 2005 10:15 am
#9
I have experienced the same issues with the master riffleman template also. Riffleman is supposed to be a super damage dealer also, however, the current CU weapons available for BH (Proton Carbine) and other profs (Fencer - one handed swords mentioned in previous post) have higher dps than that of best riffles.
This maybe be wishful thinking, but so be it...
One complaint that i heard prior to CU was that there was getting to be way too many jedi. Because they were the most powerful template, everyone of course wanted to be one. Well, it would be difficult to make Swordsman and Riffleman more difficult to obtain than other profs so perhaps they are trying to make them less diserable by other means. Perhaps these two profs are going be extremely powerful with the right weapons. In order to prevent eveyone from respecing to these profs during the respec period, they have made the uber weapons that makes these profs so strong virtually unobtainable. There may be some CU weapons that have yet to surface that give Swordsman and Riffleman the unparalled damaged dealing capabilities promised in the CU description of these professions on the SOE SWG website.
Would be nice if this were true ehh? Who knows, only time will tell... however this being the last day to respec, staying in either of these profs ESPECIALLY SWORDSMAN is like taking a leap of faith. And who better to put your trust and faith in than the SWG devs... ROFLMAO
-Dax
Wed May 25, 2005 11:37 am
#10
Vitruvian22 wrote:Well, it would be difficult to make Swordsman and Riffleman more difficult to obtain than other profs so perhaps they are trying to make them less diserable by other means. Perhaps these two profs are going be extremely powerful with the right weapons. In order to prevent eveyone from respecing to these profs during the respec period, they have made the uber weapons that makes these profs so strong virtually unobtainable. There may be some CU weapons that have yet to surface that give Swordsman and Riffleman the unparalled damaged dealing capabilities promised in the CU description of these professions on the SOE SWG website.
That is what i am hopeing. If rifles got the shaft on quest weapons too that might just be what theyre planning. I see no reason why they would put out multiple (new) weapons for every profession but the damage dealing ones unless they have SOMETHING in mind. I dont even want an uber weapon, just something on par with the new quest weapons. Our hammers fall far short, and its even worse than with rifles. The only way to enhance a hammer is with an ackley bone, which are VERY hard to get nowadays. Even a krayt juvie can drop good tissues, and i can find and solo one in about 15 minutes. It takes a good group to get to the bottom of the geo caves in less than an hour. A bad group is just as likely to get wiped as make it. Me and a friend duo it but we have to be really careful and it takes a while (about 1 1/2-2 hrs). Dont even bother to solo it, the only time i tried it took well over 2 hrs to get to ackley just so he could slaughter me, and just getting there was no easy task. Ive seen some really nice rifles on my server and hardly any hammers, mainly due to the fact tissues are so much easier to get than bones. A good group could kill alot of krayts in the time it takes to kill ackley. In those krayts youll more than likely get some good tissues but youll be lucky to even get a bone from ackley (and extremely lucky to get good ones).
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