Swordsman Archive

Everyone on this board knows there are certain disadvantages to being a Swordsman. I'm almost a Master Swordsman and I play A LOT of PVP. Filtering out all of the secondary problems, there is one problem that stands out time and time again for me while engaging in PVP:

KNOCKDOWN vs. POSTURE CHANGE

The Swordsmen's non-ability to Knockdown, combined with comparative classes ability to Knockdown, costs me my life over and over again in PVP regardless of my posture change moves...and I would like to think of myself as a well informed player, who understands the costs and effects of special moves, and knows when to use and when not to use them.

This crippling problem is NOT localized to fighting against TKAs and other melee classes. Here are some plain and simple examples:

1. Swordsman runs up to BH to try to attempt "close range" battle. BH uses Knockdown Fire before Swordsman can get to him...game over.

2. Swordsman runs up to BH to try to attempt "close range" battle (once again). BH doesn't see the Swordsman....Swordsman closes in, uses area3 special move knocking BH to his knees for enough time to get one headhit on him. BH stands up, uses Knockdown Fire on Swordsman...game over.

3. Swordsman runs up to TKA to try to attampt "close range" battle. TKA uses Knockdown on Swordsman...game over.

4. Swordsman runs up to TKA to try to attempt "close range" battle (once again). Swordsman uses area3 or sweep2. TKA kneels, takes a hit to the head, stands up, uses Knockdown on Swordsman...game over.

My point here is,

A) We are a "close range" class...and we need something to retain the enemy and keep them "close" to us...and a posture change every 30 seconds just does NOT cut it.

B) Even ranged classes that are forced to the ground quickly stand up and move out of attack radius before a second hit to the head.

C) Melee classes such as TKA should offer challenging but fair "close range" fights, but they don't. Even if a Swordsman strikes first, TKA stands up, uses knockdown and the fight is over.

And don't tell me that us Swordsmen need to learn to capitalize on what we have when classes like TKA (that are supposed to be equivelant melee classes) get dizzy, stun, KD, posture change, and blind attacks, not to mention the fact that their total stats are a staggering number higher than the Swordsman. It would take a lot of explaining to make us see that such classes are balanced.

Even then....show me a Master Swordsman that can beat an equally skilled Master TKA in a ratio greater than 1:3. IF such a fighter exists, they are either fighting against an unskilled player who doesn't know a thing about Macros or they need to share their strategy here and aqcuire a general consensus that such a strategy makes my little concern poof into thin air.

Too bad 2hLunge2, the only shot a Swordsman has at Knockdown, is isolated to a Master Brawler.

~M

what race are you? and are you pure swordsmen?

fire knockdown isnt a prob for me i can usally stand from dizzy fairly quick eyeshot is what gets me most the time ive beaten a master doc/master tka 4 times outta the 5 x we fuaght time he beat me was cuz i couldnt stand from dizzy in time if your not a doc i bet you dont wear armor either armor owns

One word M....

YEP!

We got shafted with the 30 second stance down timersand then got shafted with a drill when they lowered the knockdowns and not the stance downs to 5 seconds....

Anyone think that maybe sweeps should have been Kd's? They are for pike men...

The problem lies with the devs forgetting about us when the put the 30 second timer on delays moves. Originally I'm sure the Devs saw the meleebalance like this.

Swordsman Advantages:

• Can dizzy + posture change


• Can do unhealable mind damage

Disadvantage:

• No KD

Pikeman Advantages:

• Can area KD


• Most frontloading damage


• Can area Dizzy

Disadvantage:

• Focus on healable action

Fencer Advantages:

• Can area blind


• Can attack all pools at once


• Difficult to posture change against

Disadvantage:

• No KD

TKA advantages:

• Dizzy + KD


• Can focus on all pools


• High Defenses


• Can blind


• Difficult to posture change


• Meditation

Disadvantage:

• Low damage


• Only one damage type

What they forgot is that originally we were balanced because we could get a KD more often from posture change + dizzy in Area 3, but now both the posture change and the dizzy have got to land the first time for it to work. If you get the dizzy, but not the area change, you have to try it again. If you get the posture change and not the dizzy, there's no way you'll get a KD for 30 seconds unless your target's retarded.

Wow. Looking at that list, I'm seriously considering going TKA, at least until the swordsman situation improves.

It's not only about TKA and KD, it's about the lack of balance between melee and ranged. I was at Theed today killing Imps and guess what? I got kd'ed every like 10 seconds from BHs and Carbineers. I mean, though Pikemen have their KDs, it's STILL not on a 5 second timer. BHs and all those other ranged profs, they have their KD timer at 5 seconds or probably like 10 seconds, rather than 30 seconds. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is when the majority of the server are ranged chars with KD and you just can't do a **edit** thing about it when they spam it every few seconds and it DOESNT FAIL. I tried doing posture down on them and man those pistoleers resist it like nothing. I have nothing more to say it's just so goddamn sad we're on the bottom of the foodchain and they won't ever balance us with ranged profs. I'm just hoping they release the Scythe missions sooner so I can get that and be happy I've obtained some type of Trophy before I leave this godforsaken ranged "1337 doods" game and move the **edit** on.

Once again, I don't see why a teras kai should be able to beat any melee fighter with a sword at close range. In theory, any guy with a sword or polearm should eat the unarmed fighters lunch.

Teras Kai should be for roleplaying or for lethal attacks on ranged fighters during the fog of a big battle (where the teras kai guy can catch people prone, etc).


Its just realism........

Posture change only has 50% (or less) successful rate. Even they are knee, they can stand up within one second.

Dizzy attack... In my experience it only has 25 or lower successful rate.

Swordsman is only one of the skills. When you involve in PvP you need to use different kind of tactics. If my target is a melee, I will simply use bleed attack then concentrate on mind damage. If he's a ranged people, I will use my pets chase him then use my carbine or sword in different situation.

I won't waste the first 1 or 2 move to do posture change, it's useless. (only the case of PvP)

Hey grennon you do know you just used the word realism for a Star Wars game right? You know Star Wars, mystical force, space ships, planets blowing up? Just checking.

Good discussion and feedback.

So,

A. We can't keep ranged classes retained within our attackable radius for more than a split second (unlike our TKA brethren).

B. Those who "choose" to stay within our attackable radius are typically there to kick us in the head while we are "knocked down".
then,

C. Why are the DEVs working on issues such as (see "Swordsman Issues - Designer Responses" thread):

3) Special Moves – Expert Fitness needs a new skill or special, while 2h sweep and 2h area are too similar in what they do.

We need to better inform (note: this means they are doing nothing) you of the benefits of all special moves in game. We'll work on that.

6) Armorsmith Power Ups – How do power ups for armor work? And can armorsmiths make them? (I can't believe this is a swordsman's top 6 issue)

There are no armor power ups at this time.

ATTENTION DEVs....Take some time to really listen and understand the Swordsman imbalances. We're not asking for the power of God.....were merely asking for some balance (and armor power-ups, lol).

~M

yea, its a **edit** right now. my beef really isnt with the kd, its more with not being able to hit something you on top of, or while your swimming.

i think the chance to get a dizzy kd chance off right now needs to be around 5 percent, as right now its far to easy to trap someone for a whole fight.

i dont think ranged should get a knockdown, it negates the danger of being ranged, not killing the enemy before it reaches you.

but whatever.

This is an interesting scenario you stated since the 2 charcters i play are a swordsman and a bounty hunter. The answer is simply 158.It only takes92 out of 250 skill points to become a master swordsman, leaving 158 to spend to compliment any weaknesses. Now whats even more interesting is that a master swordsman has 1 hit killed my bounty hunter before with a mind bleed, and i wear advanced composite armor.

92 points to do thatin close range is hardly a bad deal.

Granted this defeat occured within the small confines of a starport, and with more room to work i could have better kited the swordsman....but what do you reasonably expect from spending 92 points. BTW it takes 217 points to become a master BH.

All the melee professions have a kd if u get master brawler.

Rurouni

Lowca

Master TKA, Master Brawler, 3/2/4/4 Swordsman, 4/0/0/0 fencer, novice pikeman

I envy heavy swordman bleeds <3

there is nothing like a good 3k-6k mind bleed