Swordsman Archive

I've seen a couple of posts about it out theretoday and in the past daysand it thought time was due for a round table....eventhough i personally think the result will be clear....but just for the records .

Thanks for bringing it up again...

Addendum:

It would be great if some of you playing multiple classes, especially ranged ones, but also melee, could come up with some figures comparing our costs to the costs of other classes for their specials.

I think by doing that, presenting pure figures, we could create a really strong point.

Thanks

Gorecki

I don't think it's really the HAM cost of our specials (as in the multiplier itself), but rather the HAM cost of our weapons that's way too high (I know, it's basically the same thing, but the point is the weapons need to be changed, not our class itself).

Here's a few examples:

2H Curved Sword (Avg Damage 138, HAM Cost 35/69/41)

Laser Rifle (Avg Damage 179, HAM Cost 14/23/61)

Scout Blaster (Avg Damage 86, HAM Cost 11/22/11)

Total Ham Usage: Curved 145, Laser 98, Scout 44

HAM/Weapon Damage (lower is better): Curved 1.05, Laser 0.54, Scout 0.51

Basically how many HAM/damage is a comparison of how many points of HAM are used for each point of damage we do. Assuming similar special multipliers, a 2H Curved Sword user has to spend twice as much HAM to do the same amount of damage as the Laser Rifle user. This is completely in line with what I've witnessed. The Scout Blaster is even better still!

I know the Spraystick Rifle has more HAM demands than the laser, but even so I'm pretty sure it's far less than our Curved Sword.

All that said, the Laser Rifle has a DPS (damage per second) of 25.9, the Curved Sword 47.5 and the Scout Blaster 43. So basically the Scout Blaster does nearly as much damage per second as the Curved Sword (and a fairly high quality one at that), yet uses half the HAM. And, get this, they can do this from 30+ meters away. Is there not something wrong with this picture???

For what it's worth our HAM usage may be more in line with Carbines which everyone complains about using too much HAM.

Two Handed Axe: Avg Damage 107, HAM 50/18/12, Total HAM 90. HAM/Damage ratio: 0.84

Heavy Axe: Avg Damage 98, HAM 74/33/10, Total HAM 117. HAM/Damage ratio: 1.19

Also, let me add, these are all among the best weapons I have been able to find, coming from Master Weaponsmiths/Master Artisan in the case of the Heavy Axe(and several of the different weapons come from the same exact Smith).

Let me add this thread, which has HAM costs listed by fencers which also come out to around0.5x HAM/Damage.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=fencer&message.id=812

Basically it seems like our HAM costs are doubled across the board. Some of our weapons (Curved Sword) have high DPS, but that should be our balance for having to be up in the mobs face. And, even then it's barely better than pistols. The only conclusion I can come to is someone really screwed up when it came to our class...

Bump - Power hammer is really where our class is designed to shine (2 armor penetration and Blast damage) but using this weapon is a death sentance.

The reason you want to use it is consistant 1-2k 2 hand hit 2's. Sometimes with your katana, armor will prevent a lot of the damage and youll 2h hit for 300-400.

But the power hammer blows through armor and does massive damage. Problem is YOU also take massive damage.

About 150. Now, considering I wear a full suit of ubese witha shield, that 150 hp is the equiv of 300-500 damage I could have taken. Way a lot.

Also, the -40 to hit accross the board is really painful. Means I get -50 to hit all the time.

Thanks Nagorak.

Those kind of examples is basically what i'm looking for....and it looks rather logic to me.

I've got a question though...for my personal understanding and to strengthen our point....

Does the point of a weapons quality/stats depending on the abilities (experimentation, quality of resourecs used)of a weaponsmith play into this ? Can we simply compare weapons in that way ? Is the damage of a weapon definetly tiedin a linear wayto its HAM cost? Any idea ?

Nagorak: Thanks...guess relatively seen we DO can compare them regardless of a weaponsmiths abilities....

Morpheus: ...guess the posts on the board mentioning 1-2k with 2hhit2 were in relation to the power hammer then...cause i get with my 2h curved about the same than you and was wondering where those 1-2k were coming from....hmmmm...on a more personal note: while berserking i can get up to 900...i'm simply wondering: how much can u get out of your power hammer when berserking ?....if alive long enough

Gorecki,

YES, the ham costs are WAY too high! I have an awesome 2H curved sword, which is fast and powerful.

But guess how I ALWAYS fight now. I never use ANY special moves! Taking away 139 or so HAM per special just defeats the whole purpose of using a special move in the first place.

Now all I do is run up to an enemy, press attack, and watch myself do boring normal hits. It would be nice if I were inclined to use all these special attacks that I work SO hard to get.

Adam - Bloodfin

Heavy Swordsman - Battlemaster

Proud member of STEPSONS

The One, The Only, The Dancing Swordsman

The HAM costs and stuff do vary by smith. But, when you're looking and you see such a massive difference, you know there has to be something. If someone can find a 2H Curved with a HAM ratio of near 0.5 I'd drop the argument in a minute, but I don't really think that will happen. I only shop Master Smiths, so unless the resources on my server (Corbantis) are absolutely horrible (they're not, I double as a surveyor in my part time ) I don't think it gets much better than this.

Yep..that's what i thought as well when i saw you mentioining that the fencers ratio i smore or less like the ranged ones are....

I only special move if fighting a yellow or higher, otherwise its not worth the down time. When i do special moves i have to alternate moves with stims in order to not get whipped. I typically have to use my equilibrium ( I am zabrak) to alleviate my low action after a fight. More often then not I come out of a fight with a yellow with full health, mid mind (due to healing myself) and very, verylow action. Of course one could make the argument i shouldn't be able to kill a yellow solo in a straight up fight and not come out of it unscathed which i agree with, but it points to the fact that even with healing myself and not losing any health my action is almost completely gone. my sword does more damage to me than mobs typically do, i don't even have half my moves on my qb just do to the fact that i don't use them. the only one's that seem worth their cost in action is the aoe's.

Here's my theory of HAM usage...it should be relative to where you are in the battlefield. Why should our HAM costs be the same as someone sitting 60m away not taking any hits while we are getting hit just about as often as we are attacking? Its all about balancing. I think right now they are trying to be fair all across the board, and the fact is, you can't be fair across the board. You can't give everyone highh damage low HAM bar costs because we are not all facing the same dangers. I feel that HAM usage should be directly relatedto where you are in the battle. If youre in the back taking pot-shots at your leisure, with the time to let your HAM bar recharge why shouldnt you have higher HAM costs? Meanwhile, the tanks up front taking ALL of the damage should have less HAM costs because they are already getting damaged enough. I'm sure this has all been said in one form or another, just had to get it off my chest.

War isnt fair

Cleetus McCoy