Swordsman Archive
Thread: Hmmmm... I have terrible news guys.
i see truth in what the trolls said.... lets analyze them.
1. melee should fear ranged... but ranged should fear melee when in melee-range...
true? yes in most occassion... except for pistol whip, which we all agree to be pure BS and nothing more than a stupid perk for being one of dev's golden child.
2. if ranged ever get stupid enough to get in melee range, then he's dead...
well... the problem is ... you have to be realllllly stupid to get into melee range.. cause its so easy to kite.. a kid can do it.... another problem is... the reverse is true.. "A melee has to be reallllllyyy lucky to be able to close the ranged gap."... with ranged having knockdown, the damage reduction won't help us get there...
3. with the correct strategy a sword can beat the bows...
i actually agree a lot with this one... IF the radar doesn't show a bright red bulb (once tef is fixed), and u can't just tab on to enemies, i'd LOVE being a melee.. cause then i can hide, seek, terrorize, sneak. kill as i like...
think of jedi knight 2... sure a lot of people used guns and bazooka.. but have you seen some really good guys only using lightsaber? they were kicking major S. (not all.. when the noob used em, they get blown to pieces)...
the problem though is that in those games, u never know when they might strike (sometimes from the top). once they're detected, they disappear (run through the hallway and if u follow u're dead cause u don't know where they're hiding).... and their damage is HUGE when in melee range, and once in melee range, they can circle you and hit you from all sides...
This game? ooh.. red dot.. tab tab.. ahhh there we go... F3 F4 F4.. woot! i win against a swordman, i'm uber l33t!.... what strategy can we do?...
To make pvp work, my suggestion is to:
1. Remove tabbing! it cuts down the skill required to fight to which one has the ranged knockdown. Select the enemy with your mouse pointer. if u can't do that then u deserve to die. Even a sniper at 64m... u think its easy to snipe? =P the further u are, the harder it should be to target the enemy.
2. Lost line of sight = lost target... meaning u have to reclick the target the next time u wanna attack him... otherwise u know where they're hiding at all times.. and its silly..
3. Higher lvl elite players (swordsman/sniper/maybe TKA/bounty/smuggler) or maybe everyone.. or maybe put it in scouting... should have a camouflage skill that works on players.. meaning i can disappear from ur radar..
4 similarly, players should have a check against camouflage, and if u have high skill on alertness (or something else since alertness is mostly in marksman), u can detect them... but this shouldn't happen often.
THATS IT! .. no need for balancing the health.. or run issue.. or anything... instead of balancing the skills so they're all similar to each other, why don't they make it so that we CAN actually use some skill and strategy to play.
of course all the noobs will complain cause... well... they're casual gamer who never played action game before and they just 'wanna have fun' in SWG... I'd say that those o.O can have fun in their cantina. in the battlefield, the true warrior should win... not the o.O with the internet template of smuggler/TKA
Guys, this is Star Wars. The brawler profession was really not meant to be for PVP.
Just think about it, how are we suppose to deflect blaster fire with metallic swords.
Yes, there is a thing called class balancing but that doesn't mean it needs to be used. A game can be enjoyed without balance in the classes. The Devs have stated countless times that their overall goal is to provide the feel of the Star Wars Universe.
I don't know about you but I never saw a stormtrooper weild any melee weapon in any of the movies, did you?
What most people are wanting to happen is for us to become Jedi (in the lightsaber using aspect, not the Force one) and that's just not gonna happen.
If you want to PVP, pick up a gun. This is supposed to be the Galactic War. I don't think they want to ruin their license by having swordsman and TKAs running around in battlefields killing all the people with guns.
i also don't agree with the balance for 'surreal' reason... just because its a game doesn't mean everything has to be equal (u see an architect beating u up with a big house?)... the thing is...
well, i've been playing Jedi Academy (beta), and in that game, i never use my blaster...
YES, i'm a jedi there, so i can deflect... but at low lvl, ur saber deflection skill totally sux.. so what do u do? strafe like crazy, hide behind trees etc, run, rollover, get closer, jump over em and slice em from behind..(basically its not 'get hit and deflect'... its more of.. 'don't get hit.') and it works like a charm.. in fact rambo used it quite often.. or jacky chan.. or =P
the thing is, our advantage should be that we don't need to aim while we're at ranged (we can focus our everything into dodging and running)... while ranged punk has to kneel and aim their gun if they ever wanna hope to hit us (even then its supposed to be tough hitting a running/dodging target...
now.. is it realistic for a pistoleer who's running AWAY to be able to hit a swordsman who's strafing from side to side, from box to box?... screw thelightsaber blockingpart... is it realistic to HIT such a target?...
did you see Hansolo's gunfight? did he ever get hit?.. is he a jedi?... the point is that auto-targetting + pressing one button + crazy accuracy while running is a stupid joke... but the truth is we can't get rid of the auto-targetting+pressing one button cause this is just an MMORPG (timeand$ required...no skills)
When I'm strafing, i want their accuracy to be 30%.. when THEY are running i want it to be 30%.... is that too much? maybe... but does anyone in starwars ever get hit in 1 out of3 shots?... i've counted at least 100 to 0 against hansolo and leia.... (in just one episode =P)...
Other example: in shooting game, hitting a strafing target is hell (yes some of u are uber and can headshot a jumping/strafing/rolling target... but its still tough =P)... and in games with lockable targets (such as AC2 and gundam and zone of enders), when u shoot and the enemy moves around, ur trajectory goes to where the enemy WAS, and its very ahrd to hit a moving target...) in here.. ranged rule.
if u're both kneeling and shooting at each other. of course it should hit more.. but a running swordsman? u gotta be kidding me.
MrTokai I see your point, but try to see mine. Obviously as you said an architect is not going to beet people up with a house, but listen. There is a difference between brawler and marksman, and the other starting classes. What's the difference, their classes are made specifically for combat. As an architect or entertainer i would expect to get killed easily if i didn't pick up any other skills because my main class was not made for combat, the artisan class doesn't get xp for combat. Both marksman and brawlers do, but what is the point of brawler when the battle is onesided in favor of the marksman.
And about the jedi. I never thought this class would be anything like a jedi. I know the difference between a ligthsaber and a metal sword. I never expected to deflect blasterbolts with it. What i did expect was to be equal in terms of advantages with the ranged classes. That does not mean i expected to be able to take on hords and hords of blaster carrying soldiers like the jedi do. As a normal human being in the game with a sword I would expect to die within five seconds if four or five stormtroopers start firing at me. But one guy, one blaster, and me. I should be able to defeat him provided i'm a higher level than him.
Never saw a signup..
So if they implement a /stick command, would you all agree to have them reduce melee damage output by about 30% or more?
Melee does the most damage-per-second BECAUSE of it's limitations. You can't remove the limitations and still expect to keep all the advantages. Everyone should have realized coming in that melee would be at a disadvantage vs ranged. The devs said it repeatedly in beta, it's in the manual and it should be fairly apparent to anyone who has ever heard of not bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I'm a rifleman/swordsman. I love the sword, but I keep the rifle for PvP. Only in rare circumstances do I try to use my sword in PvP.
But incidentally, this response was almost 100% wrong:
Toxotes wrote:
1) Armorsmiths do not craft shield generators because they have zero durability and cannot be recharged.
2) Doctors can only be found in hospitals or static spawn points.
3) Chef buffs and spices require high level medic skill to use in a PvP situation.
4) Marksmen burst run just as fast as us and suffer a minimal accuracy penalty. If you burst run first, your burst run wears off first.
1) Yes they do, though I think the Mk3's cost too much. You can repair them with a clothing repair tool as long as you catch them before they get to 0 condition. Don't use them in PvE.
2) Doctors can be found anywhere there are players. Doctors are players, not NPC's.
3) Chef foods and smuggler spices can be used anywhere by anyone, there are no skill requirements to eat.
4) This, at least, is something you're right about. Burst run is just as easily used against melee as by melee. (Not to mention that 2 out of 3 PvP'ers are bounty hunters and will just knock you down.)
---
So anyway, the original post was not terrible news, it was something I knew about 6 months ago, before I was in beta, from reading the forums and FAQ.
Guys, this is Star Wars. The brawler profession was really not meant to be for PVP.
Just think about it, how are we suppose to deflect blaster fire with metallic swords.
Yes, there is a thing called class balancing but that doesn't mean it needs to be used. A game can be enjoyed without balance in the classes. The Devs have stated countless times that their overall goal is to provide the feel of the Star Wars Universe.
I don't know about you but I never saw a stormtrooper weild any melee weapon in any of the movies, did you?
What most people are wanting to happen is for us to become Jedi (in the lightsaber using aspect, not the Force one) and that's just not gonna happen.
If you want to PVP, pick up a gun. This is supposed to be the Galactic War. I don't think they want to ruin their license by having swordsman and TKAs running around in battlefields killing all the people with guns.