Swordsman Archive
Thread: Conclusive evidence 2H dam tapes DON'T work (based on 1058 observations)
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masher404
Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:16 am
#1
Hello all,
I have become quite bored with SWG lately and decided to make my own content 
Anyway, I decided to find out whether 2H dam tapes did anything or not. Consensus have been, they don't work as it was a beta mod, that got removed. But I am not one to take other people's word for it, so I decided to do a little experiment on my own!
Anyway, I decided to find out whether 2H dam tapes did anything or not. Consensus have been, they don't work as it was a beta mod, that got removed. But I am not one to take other people's word for it, so I decided to do a little experiment on my own!I gathered +23 to 2H dam ( easy
) and I was ready to begin. For the experiment I used my 5.4 171-588 powerhammer and as a master brawler, master swordsman with a 2H speed of 95 I hit the speedcap with melee2Hhit3.
) and I was ready to begin. For the experiment I used my 5.4 171-588 powerhammer and as a master brawler, master swordsman with a 2H speed of 95 I hit the speedcap with melee2Hhit3.I ran 14 30kmissions out of an improved job market city on Dant (Mokk shaman camps and outposts and janta shaman camps) without the 2H dam. I used melee2hhit3 on the lairs (to weed out resists) exclusively and took screenshots of the combat log after each lair.
Then I slotted the +23 2H dam and did the same thing again.
That yielded me 28 screenshots with around 40 melee2Hhit3 on each, that needed to be entered into Excel. All in all 1058 observations were entered; 527 without the dam tapes, 531 with the dam tapes.
One small note here is, that due to combat lag I removed any value under 1000 as that would an auto-attack that had snuck it's way into the combat queue. This happened 5-8 times, not enough to sway the experiment. I could probably bump it to 1200, but it would still not make a difference.
So what did I find? At first it looked promising; a 10% difference in damage in favour of the 2H dam tapes! Sweet. But as the number of observations rose, the two average values closed in each other. These are the results of the experiment:
527 observations without +23 in2H dam tapes:
Average damage pr hit: 2851.006
Median damage pr hit: 2878
Standarddeviation: 906.308
531 observations with +23 in2H dam tapes:
Average damage pr hit: 2851.697
Median damage pr hit: 2915
Standarddeviation: 914.841
A 0.02% difference in damage output based on 1058 observations and a 0.94% difference in standarddeviation.
Conclusion
2H dam tapes do NOT work in any way what so ever.
Originally I had a slight hope of the tapes working in some way on dam. I didn't think they would deliver a higherdamage output pr second, but maybe that they worked on raising the min dam and narrowing the dam spread...kinda like a reverse form of melee mitigation. But no such luck 
The difference in standarddeviation proves that.
The difference in standarddeviation proves that.But I made around 900k doing the missions and I had fun crunching the numbers I had of course hoped for a difference of some sort, so I could run some tests for normal distribution and test the differing values within a 95% confidence interval......but no.
I had of course hoped for a difference of some sort, so I could run some tests for normal distribution and test the differing values within a 95% confidence interval......but no.Let this be a warning to all those, who still doubt, whether the dam tapes work or not (not many, I know 
).
).-cheers, Ito
StGabriel
Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:26 am
#3
Good work. Thanks for taking the time to do this as it's nice to have some hard numbers to work with on these things.
StGabe.
Thanks for taking the time to do this as it's nice to have some hard numbers to work with on these things.StGabe.
masher404
Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:57 am
#4
everyone knows they dont work....
yes, everyone does.....and know they can prove it
and thanks, Gabe. Hopefully it will save someone somewhere some money
Legende
Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:07 am
#5
Cassinko wrote:everyone knows they dont work....
Show me numbers other than the ones here, and then you can justify your comment.
Great work on all this, now that the numbers are up, Gabe can bring it to the Devs with evidence of yet another non-working tape.
Tathizar
Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:16 am
#6
heh, i'd get some speed or accuracy 2h tapes first, but never thought to try that out, gj!
masher404
Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:14 pm
#7
Thank you all and thank you for the 5 stars
Hopefully this can help in the fight against useless tapes
Naruk_The_Wookiee
Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:24 pm
#8
I have writen bs.... get dmg and spd the wrong way...nvm...
get dmg and spd the wrong way...nvm...Message Edited by Naruk_The_Wookiee on 09-12-2004 02:29 PM
FtB
Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:19 pm
#9
The experiment would probably work better if you used something with a much lower damage range, like a Heavy Axe.
*IF* the 2h damage mod is added directly ontop of base (not a %, like tkm unarmed damage mod) then a +23 wouldnt really show up on a 170-600 damage hammer.
*IF* the 2h damage mod is added directly ontop of base (not a %, like tkm unarmed damage mod) then a +23 wouldnt really show up on a 170-600 damage hammer.
masher404
Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:33 am
#10
Very true about the dam spread....should've thought of that
However, I do think, that if the +23 was added on top, it would show up in the average dam, especially with a number of observations in this range. Under all circumstances the average dam is exactly the same, so I drew the conclusion, that 2H dam tapes didn't do squat.
StGabriel
Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:43 am
#11
A smaller damage range would provide higher certainty. However a 23 damage bonus should still be a 6% boost on damage for the weapon used. The odds of such a boost not showing up after the number of trials that were run is hopefully statistically insignificant. Any statisticians out there?
Gabe.
Gabe.
masher404
Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:27 am
#12
If there had been a difference (even a slight one), you could have tested for normal distribution (most likely distribution in this case)and then tested the 2 average dams against each other, to see if they were significantly different (ie. dam tapes doing something).
That was not the case, so I didn't bother I had been looking forward to that
I had been looking forward to that
DrewBuddhaMan
Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:38 pm
#13
Cassinko wrote:
everyone knows they dont work....
no. everyone believes they dont work
Understand the difference and you are one step closer to enlightenment.
Good job on data analysis, However a smaller damage range would have been a much better test.
Have someone craft an axe with the worst possible materials and no experimentation.
Also just use autoattack and no specials. Throwing out an extra 1000 pt attack from 500 would skew the average by 2 points.
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