Squad Leader Archive

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Jameyfresh wrote:

So this may make me sound lik a n00b but I've been master SL since september. Mostly only used formup and given heavy combat players some terrain negotiation. Right now I'm trying to figure out if Steady Aim is really working in a way I could use it more in PvP. I know that it's supposed to add to general ranged aiming or something like that, but I'm wondering if any of you other veteran SLs have put any use to this skill. Anyone really tested it with other players to see if it gives a bonus they can see over the course of a duel or battle? I am really happy that SL group ranged and melee defenses seem to be stacking past the cap that a player can get on their own. Lots of the players I lead are noticing the difference in defenses from when I am leader. But back to the main topic, if you have figured how to effecitvely use Steady Aim in a PvP setting, I'd really appreciate the info. And if anyone has found a good use for volleyfire or rally as well, be interested in that info too. I've mostly given up on those specials.

Tierce the Master Squad Leader on Tempest
Strength In Numbers

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Sorry, i cant help you directly on Steady Aim. All my experience tells me so far is a general increase in accuracy by about 30. But this is still subject to testing.

But i CAN help you on your second querry:

Good uses for Volley Fire, Rally and Retreat:

Let's start with the obvious:

Volley Fire:

With some minor Skill attachments (+5 to +10) volley fire is a perfect too to call targets. It is easier and quicker than the simple /assist command and it confers an accuracy bonus on the first volley.Togerther with a trained team it enables you to devastate almost any Player in a matter of not more than 4 seconds. I have personally witnessed players killed in just one second, while armored and fully buffed, after an 8-man team with a squad leader decided to start callling targets.

Rally:

Rally increases the defenses (icluding state defenses to some extend) of your whole group by a non-negligible amount (something around+30 to +50). It prevents you from rezzing, meditatng, dragging, playing music and dancing, so you need to use it whisely, but it can make your group into a bastion for a short time period, given the correct templates.

Retreat:

The single most powerfull move a Squad Leader has. Period. Once you have been charged by a group, that is undeer constant rally from a SL, you know what i am talking about.

Constant Burst run is devastating. You can escape any enemy, you can catch up to any enemy, nothing can really stop you. The only way to escape such a group is by using vehicles and you better hope they dont blow it up, before you hit it.

The name is just a bit misleading. I changed my message to "Go, get 'em, boys!". That is more fitting.

Disclaimer: The numbers supplied are rough estimates based on current experience. If have not yet done a through testing of the SL mechanics, nor will i do in the near furture, but they should be pretty accurate.

Dogg

First, /retreat is indeed very effective at chasing down single overts who start to run from your group, or for blitzing the Theed spaceport and scattering any overt Imps in the area. However, when I use Retreat without armor on, I lose around 1000 mind. With armor, I lose 1800 mind. That's absurd, and unless you aren't facing any real opposition anyway, it's a sure method of signing your quick death warrant.

Second, Volley Fire is a terrible skill. I would much rather use a Steady Aim and let my squad pick the target themselves, as they're quite intelligent and capable fighters. And I don't believe your claim of a 1-second kill from an 8-man squad for a second. Let's do the math:

VolleyFire queues a single default attack against the SL's target. Let's say your entire squad has T21 Rifles with max damage of 1000, and that all eight of them hit for full damage against the target. 8000 damage reduces to 2000 in PVP. 80% armor reduces this to 400, but bumped to 500 from AP bonuses. The original 2000 damage isn't even enough to kill an unarmored, buffed target, especially when you consider that Volley Fire is untargetted and will hit the three pools at a 3:2:1 ratio.

The only use I've ever had for Volley Fire is in PVE to draw aggro off of yourself. And let's not forget that your squad goes back to attacking their original targets after the volley... simply a terrible skill if you ask me.

Now Rally is interesting... I use it on occasion in PVP, and more often recently simply because it doesn't cost very much when you're fully buffed, and sometimes I have nothing better to do while the templateers do their work. But I can't say I've ever noticed much of a difference... let's face it, when you only hit someone 1 in 10 shots, are you really going to notice if you start hitting 1 in 8 shots for a single minute? It *does* give a bonus from observations in PVE, but I dunno how large.

With those in mind, Form Up is easily our best skill in PVP. Stun and Dizzy are two very common and rather hurtful states, and the ability to clear them even when you aren't in the thick of battle is fantastic. Full buffed, the cost is negligible, and you can spam it as fast as the enemy spams their FullAutos and Flurries.

Hope this helps the original poster as well.

[edit]

Heh, forgot to talk about Steady Aim. I really only use Steady Aim in PVP when attacking AT-STs, or if I'm far from the front line. The HAM cost is a little high, especially if you start spamming it. Commandos really love Steady Aim when used with their weapons, which helps in tackling larger targets, like the aforementioned walkers.

Message Edited by InfluenzaSWTA on 04-01-2004 11:04 PM

Message Edited by InfluenzaSWTA on 04-01-2004 11:05 PM

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InfluenzaSWTA wrote:

While I agree with some of your comments, Inquisitor, I have trouble accepting all of them.

First, /retreat is indeed very effective at chasing down single overts who start to run from your group, or for blitzing the Theed spaceport and scattering any overt Imps in the area. However, when I use Retreat without armor on, I lose around 1000 mind. With armor, I lose 1800 mind. That's absurd, and unless you aren't facing any real opposition anyway, it's a sure method of signing your quick death warrant.

I hear ya! That is why i posted in another thread, that an unbuffed squad leader is a useless squad leader and it is also one of my personal top 5s. But buffed, i lose not a single point of any stat, even when rallying a 20 man group. It all depends on preparation...

Second, Volley Fire is a terrible skill. I would much rather use a Steady Aim and let my squad pick the target themselves, as they're quite intelligent and capable fighters. And I don't believe your claim of a 1-second kill from an 8-man squad for a second. Let's do the math:

VolleyFire queues a single default attack against the SL's target. Let's say your entire squad has T21 Rifles with max damage of 1000, and that all eight of them hit for full damage against the target. 8000 damage reduces to 2000 in PVP. 80% armor reduces this to 400, but bumped to 500 from AP bonuses. The original 2000 damage isn't even enough to kill an unarmored, buffed target, especially when you consider that Volley Fire is untargetted and will hit the three pools at a 3:2:1 ratio.

Yupp, but you oversee a very powerful option available along with Volley fire:

If your group is trained in that use (TS is of help in that one), you can coordinate a Mind barrage from 8 people on one target (Volley fire witches the target of all involved on that player, everyone spams Mind attacks on the target the same instance). It works and it excercises punishing firepower. But it needs a lot of training and coordination.

But everyone willing to train it whith his group will be greatly rewarded by it.

The only use I've ever had for Volley Fire is in PVE to draw aggro off of yourself. And let's not forget that your squad goes back to attacking their original targets after the volley... simply a terrible skill if you ask me.

I do not PvE other than grinding, so i cant comment on this one. But although it is not the most powerful skill available to squad leaders, it is still a devastating tool if used by a trained SL in a trained Group.

Now Rally is interesting... I use it on occasion in PVP, and more often recently simply because it doesn't cost very much when you're fully buffed, and sometimes I have nothing better to do while the templateers do their work. But I can't say I've ever noticed much of a difference... let's face it, when you only hit someone 1 in 10 shots, are you really going to notice if you start hitting 1 in 8 shots for a single minute? It *does* give a bonus from observations in PVE, but I dunno how large.

The nummbers i have given in my above post should be fairly accurate. And it does indeed amke a difference. You can see it best in the average survival time of your CMs and Doctors. But the current drawbacks make it only rarely a viable option. The use is fairly limited.

With those in mind, Form Up is easily our best skill in PVP. Stun and Dizzy are two very common and rather hurtful states, and the ability to clear them even when you aren't in the thick of battle is fantastic. Full buffed, the cost is negligible, and you can spam it as fast as the enemy spams their FullAutos and Flurries.

Here i fully agree! The FormUp command is the bread and Butter of the Squad leader and easily one of the most powerful specials on the game.

Hope this helps the original poster as well.

[edit]

Heh, forgot to talk about Steady Aim. I really only use Steady Aim in PVP when attacking AT-STs, or if I'm far from the front line. The HAM cost is a little high, especially if you start spamming it. Commandos really love Steady Aim when used with their weapons, which helps in tackling larger targets, like the aforementioned walkers.

Well, as i said before, when fully buffed, i have no HAM drain whatsoever from any SL special. It just depends on preparation.

And ust like you i hope my reply to your post is valuable for you and the original poster alike.

Dogg

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InfluenzaSWTA wrote:
You really get no HAM drain at all on Retreat? Interesting. I used the skill twice last night in PVP with doctor buffs (no buffs to mind secondaries), and got the previously-mentioned mind drains of 1000 and 1800. I didn't lose any action or health because of those buffs, but it was a tremendous mind loss. With musician buffs and perhaps a shot of brandy or vagnerian canape I wouldn't have lost any mind... I'll have to try that next time.

Regarding Volley Fire... perhaps we're both right. When your group is already in combat, Volley Fire doesn't switch your group members' targets; it simply makes them fire one defaultshot at your targetted player, then they go back to firing at their original targets (bleh, gotta come up with a second word for "target"). However, I'm not sure how it behaves when no one is fighting anything, since I admittedly haven't ever used it in that situation. Perhaps everyone continues to fight the target you select if they weren't in combat before... it wouldn't make sense if they didn't.

Excellent discussion... I'll have to talk to my squad and do some training exercises with Steady Aim and Volley Fire, see what we can come up with.

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To be all honest:

During PvP my Mind and Mind substats are higher than any other of my Stats:

Mind: ~2,900 (~3,400 with Muon, but i rarely use Muon and ~3,750 in emergency situations, using a third Brandy)

Focus: ~2,900 (~3,400 with Muon, up to ~4,350 in emergency situations with a third canape and a third Brandy)

Willpower: ~2,900 (~3,400 with Muon, up to ~4,350 in emergency situations with a third canape and a third Brandy)

And i am a Twi'lek if anyone is interested.

On the Volley Fire:

What you di is, during the volley fire, you deselct your target. That selects the Volley fire target. Then the Squad Commences firing on the selected target.

But i agree, that Volley fire should just switch the target of all Team Members, so that we would not have to train timing for months. It is getting tiresome after a while.

I hope that hepls getting some insight into that topic. I may be SL for 2 weeks now, but i was SL back in the early days already, so i got some previous experience i could use

Dogg

I reevaluated Volleyfire and its handicaps are too hard to justify it's use as intended.

I changed the way i use it currently:

I created a Macro with

/systemmessage

/volleyFire

The system message indicates the target: "Target %TT and take him out!"

I colour code the message to not let it go under in the systemn spam during combat:

"Target %TT and take him out!"

I use the red colour to make the actual targets name more visible.

The /volleyFire command is used to give the team members a general knowledge of the targets location (they turn while firing) to make out the target more easily, so they may adjust their target or use /assist.

Currently this is the best method i can think of. I am happy for any other input on this topic.

Dogg