Squad Leader Archive
Thread: CU Scout Proposal to fix problems with Ranger and Squad Leader
The Ranged Support line for a prereq is never going away. Squad Leader is a Ranged Profession, if a player picks up some melee it comes with a price.
How would Creature Handlers and Bounty Hunters fit into this?
irott wrote:
A very interesting proposal...
The Ranged Support line for a prereq is never going away. Squad Leader is a Ranged Profession, if a player picks up some melee it comes with a price.
How would Creature Handlers and Bounty Hunters fit into this?
I understand that Squad Leader is a Ranged profession... as it is currently designed. But why is that? Does a rank of pikemen in a battle not benefit from someone being in command? Unless this is an attempt to keep Star Wars geared more twards ranged profession, (which can be done in other ways), then I see this as a bit of social engineering on the part of the devs that is not necessary. Yes, it is easier for a combatant to issue commands from the safety of the rear, but many great commanders in history fought in the front line, toe to toe with their enemy. Put it in SW terms: would the Devs have us believe that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn did not have SL abilties? I never saw either use a ranged weapon (that I recall), but they were effective and inspirational military leaders, and it wasn't all jedi mind tricks... 
I imagine that creature handlers and bio-engineers would continue to need the Hunting tree -it now adds trapping, which makes sense as theoretically both CH and BE would want to be able to capture live specimens. I'd consider a prereq other than survival for CH, since that would mean they'd have the exact same prereq as Rangers... I'll have to noodle on that one a bit - may depend on what the other Scout trees looked like. Bounty Hunters would need Survival.
- Hunting (scout xp or trapping xp)
Bonuses for trapping and creature harvesting, knowledge and to-hit bonus. Several trap schematics. - Survival (wilderness survival xp)
Bonuses for terrain neg, burst run, mask scent, camping and foraging. Skill for Mask Scent and Forage. A couple of camp schematics. - Reconnaissance (scout xp or combat xp)
This tree should support group movement and terrain advantages. Bonuses for surprising enemies, group accuracy based on terrain, group increased range. Maybe the Rally skill? - Slaying (scout xp)
This tree could basically be Hunting for NPCs (would replace what you called Group Combat). Bonuses for NPC to-hit bonus and NPC knowledge. NPC knowledge could include additional information in the /examine window similar to creature knowledge. The additional info could be about faction affiliation, aggressiveness, DB, the new "hate" system, etc.
- Ranger - Hunting and Survival IV
- SL - Reconnaissance and Marksman Ranged Support IV
- CH - Hunting and Reconnaissance IV
- BH - Slaying and Marksman Ranged Support IV
- BE - Hunting and Medic Org Chem IV
Glynnis wrote:
Wow! Those are some great ideas for Scout. Let me try to summarise what you wrote and then give you my idea of how your proposal would fit into SL. But first of all... if irott says ranged support for marksman will stay as a prereq for SL then we should believe it.
The four trees in Scout would be:
- Hunting (scout xp or trapping xp)
Bonuses for trapping and creature harvesting, knowledge and to-hit bonus. Several trap schematics.
- Survival (wilderness survival xp)
Bonuses for terrain neg, burst run, mask scent, camping and foraging. Skill for Mask Scent and Forage. A couple of camp schematics.
- Reconnaissance (scout xp or combat xp)
This tree should support group movement and terrain advantages. Bonuses for surprising enemies, group accuracy based on terrain, group increased range. Maybe the Rally skill?
- Slaying (scout xp)
This tree could basically be Hunting for NPCs (would replace what you called Group Combat). Bonuses for NPC to-hit bonus and NPC knowledge. NPC knowledge could include additional information in the /examine window similar to creature knowledge. The additional info could be about faction affiliation, aggressiveness, DB, the new "hate" system, etc.
Scout prereqs for elite profs:
- Ranger - Hunting and Survival IV
- SL - Reconnaissance and Marksman Ranged Support IV
- CH - Hunting and Reconnaissance IV
- BH - Slaying and Marksman Ranged Support IV
- BE - Hunting and Medic Org Chem IV
The skill mods I listed for Reconnaissance are based your ideas. This is the tree that needs the most input from SL... help, please? I didn't really understand "Group Combat" so I invented "Slaying" to support BH with some ideas of my own.
Feel free to post this info in the Scout forum or point me to the relevant thread and I can try to post something myself.
Glad you liked it, Glynnis, and I like what you've done to clarify it. I'll be the first to admit there needs to be more clarity around the proposed new trees for Scout, and what they mean for Rangers, Squad Leaders, and Scouts themselves. I'm not sure of the prereq breakdown... I'm finding it difficult to rationalize CH, for example, needing reconaissance over survival, but I understand the desire to avoid a sitution where two elite profs have the exact same prereqs. Will have to noodle that one.
I've had virtually no response from Scouts on this (it's on their forum with a similar title), and none of it positive, although that in part may be due to the attitude of their Correspondent. I'm just a little surprised, since it seems to me to make Scouts more varied and interesting, while supporting two key underutilized elite professions. /shrug
KundoJet wrote:I'm finding it difficult to rationalize CH, for example, needing reconaissance over survival, but I understand the desire to avoid a sitution where two elite profs have the exact same prereqs.
Yep, I wasn't too sure about CH either but Recon could be something helpful for anything that's grouped, players or pets. Improved accuracy, range, speed, etc. based on terrain.
I saw this in from the Stratics HoC Dev Chat and thought it might be relevant. At least it's a hint that the developers are willing to consider Scout as a combat profession.
Brannoc - *Kimi_Kauri* Under the new system, what will be the cap of melee/ranged defense? Because of the high SP cost, will ranger be given more of these mods and an increase in combat level/HAM?
Keldarin - We're constantly re-evaluating our design decisions and listen carefully to player feedback. We changed our stance on Rangers contributing to combat level and will be adding that into the calculation. In the near future you will see your Scout and Ranger skills add to your Combat Level. =)
Glynnis wrote:
KundoJet wrote:
I'm finding it difficult to rationalize CH, for example, needing reconaissance over survival, but I understand the desire to avoid a sitution where two elite profs have the exact same prereqs.
Yep, I wasn't too sure about CH either but Recon could be something helpful for anything that's grouped, players or pets. Improved accuracy, range, speed, etc. based on terrain.
I saw this in from the Stratics HoC Dev Chat and thought it might be relevant. At least it's a hint that the developers are willing to consider Scout as a combat profession.
Brannoc - *Kimi_Kauri* Under the new system, what will be the cap of melee/ranged defense? Because of the high SP cost, will ranger be given more of these mods and an increase in combat level/HAM?
Keldarin - We're constantly re-evaluating our design decisions and listen carefully to player feedback. We changed our stance on Rangers contributing to combat level and will be adding that into the calculation. In the near future you will see your Scout and Ranger skills add to your Combat Level. =)