Squad Leader Archive

Hello Thulium,

First off i'm not a squad leader, nor have had the priviliege yet in-game, although i did group once with one. Second this discussion may or may not have appeared on this profession board of yours, so with thos disclaimers aside to the idea feature for squad leaders.

Have any of you played "Shadowbane"? I have heard that for a group leader there has the option to direct group members into a formation to basically "sure up" or your basic "form up skill" you have already. So what if squad leaders were given a catalog (that later formations are added) to work with depending on the purpose of the group. I.E. hunting, scouting, Pvp, PA war, escort, convoy, etc... With such a catalog of group formations that a Squad leader can offer can yeild leadership skill experience.

When group members are directed to a particular formation their personal radar screen zooms into 32m or 64 m vicinity. Where the template formation design would be highlighted so group members can literially "Fall-In" to position. Also, for those of you who are Trekkie fans have you noticed prior to a battle on a Starship that the Captain tells the navigator something like use "Delta Pattern" etc... This squad leader group formation feature would follow such a vien of gameplay for all of you.

How useful would such a squad leader feature be to all of you?

Thanks for your comments.

Great question, Atrayo, and someting like this has been discussed to some degree...

Basically the challenge to this idea is twofold: First, the actual shape of a formation in the current SWG battle system is unlikely to have any appreciable effect except for roleplay and/or aesthetic. This isn't to discount the idea, because it would be a lot of fun, but to point out that it would require a signifigant amount of development time for little to no impact...and we already have plenty of abilities that have little to no impact! Granted, a stat bonus could be added to the various formations, but a stat bonus could be given with or without putting the players in formation

The other issue is a bit more elusive, but it's still quite important. The ability for a Squad Leader to force his team into formation bears some connotation of player puppeteering. That is to say, the Squad Leader community has previously discussed and generally dismissed the idea of turning Squad Leaders into "people handlers" and reducing squad members into "pets". Any way that a formation command might lend itself to AFK exploits is a bit frowned upon.

Again, neither of these reasons completely dismisses the idea. I think its a great idea, and if properly implemented could really do a lot toward making the game more fun for groups with Squad Leaders. It's just these roadblocks that prevent it from being at the top of our priority list.

If you look at the following link and scroll down to SL you can see what the devs proposed to us back in the day. The SL community rallied (pun intended) and turned it down. Being a Player Handler is not what SL is about. It is about providing support for the whole group.

Formations are hard to set up since all players have their own combat styles.


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=394421

Hello Thulium, (Thanks Irot for the link)

The "people handler" aspect as you've stated can be seen from a different light. One which "Richard Garriott" creator of the Ultima series stated once in a G4 cable tv interview. That western gamers are more so lone wolf mavericks in not liking to be led or coordinated. Where as the Asian gamers, as he was citing Lineage there are massive Pvp battles where those asian gamers have no resistance to being led. Basically what your calling people handlers in game play, albeit that may be a pyschological explanation and not a applicable solution to this dilemma.

Group formations do not have to be "mandatory", the squad leader can offer the group formation as a non-mandatory maneuver for group members. Much like any command given by a squad leader during grouped game play. Now stating that group formations is a nicety for role playing or only aesthetic purposes, may underscore your comprehension of a tacticians role. I'm not sure how much experience you may have in clan or grouped FPS games, but group tactics is key to a successful bout online. Formations for certain types of game objectives is also a key ingredinent, those who playmilitary sims can add an amen here.

Now having phrased your statement that group formations may not impact gameplay much as it pertains to SWG is another matter. Due to how round based combat is set up for Pve or Pvp game play purposes. Like i mentioned in my last post the many types of roles that group formations can be used. Group formations for a squad Leader can even cross-over to eventual creature mounted combat ala a Cavarly mounted unit.

Then consider the future of squad leaders as a profession when the space expansion comes down the road. Where squad leaders can ply the group formation in space or aerial / orbital: dog fights, escorts, convoys, etc... much like i explained above in formation roles.

Yes i do understand that many of our SWG professions are broken, and the current version of SWG can be considered as a beta at least, since it is under a year old from retail. But, SWG will hopefully have a shelf life due to many expansions for at least 3 to 4 years. By that time these starting professions will be mostly on an even keel (knock on wood), with the newer professions going through the hemorages we are right now.

Again, thanks for reading thus far and your comments, they are appreciated. (that goes out to all of you too reading this post)

I think this actually would be a great benefit to our profession. Even with Mobility 4 I still have group members fall behind and we have to stop every now and again to get everyone regrouped. Additionally I hate it when people go AFK and don't /follow someone. You end up either leaving them alone and unprotected or wait until they return from AFK. So aside from Role Playing advantage I see this working as follows.

• Squad Leader issues the /formation <pattern> command.


• Immediately all group members are set to Auto Follow on the Squad Leader.


• Each group member has a position(1-20) assigned to them when they join the group. SL is always position 1.


• All formation patterns would have positions 1-20 to accomodate a full group.


• Each member then moves to their assigned position in the pattern.


• Any member may leave auto-follow by any of the current methods in game(/stopfollow or manual keyboard movement controls). This allows people to not be forced to be into formation.


• Everyone would move at the same speed entirely based upon the Squad Leader's Terrain Negotiation.

This would be a Master Squad Leader ability(in my opinion) or it could be a Novice ability and grant additional formation patterns as you increase in the Mobility Tree and some extra patterns at Master level.

Now why would people want to move in formation?

1. Groups lead by Squad Leaders would arrive to destinations all together.


2. Groups don't have to worry about leaving behind AFK people.


3. Possibly give the group a speed Bonus.


4. Role Playing aspect.


5. It would look really cool seeing a column of people moving in unison.

Also along the lines of movement I think a /squadcharge command would be nice. It would work similar to /retreat but would fire off the individuals /burstrun timer.

I like these ideas. Hopefully when they overhaul the profession things like these can be looked into. I hate it when the group is scattered all over or stretched out thin when moving to target.

Keep the good ideas coming!

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irott wrote:
If you look at the following link and scroll down to SL you can see what the devs proposed to us back in the day. The SL community rallied (pun intended) and turned it down. Being a Player Handler is not what SL is about. It is about providing support for the whole group.
Formations are hard to set up since all players have their own combat styles.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=394421

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player formations are a wonderful idea.

Maybe you would have instences of people complainign we were manipulating their characters and pupeterring......but look. In the REAL military..ANY military....you HAVE to listen to your Leaders. If you dont, then you arent in th emilitary. Its as simpel as that.

now this game is for fun, and I wouldnt want to detract from anyones fun. HOWEVER. If the formatiosn gave appropriate bonuses, and were relevant for use in some situations (ie. last stand when you are being overrun and running is not an option.....or skirmish formation when you are scouting) THEN I would be all for it.

Granted, people dont wanna be pupeteered....but if implemented properly I do not see this causing much harm

instead of "formatons" i though of "states" which are in my reworked SL tree ( which will be posted again soon )

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=5395&highlight=#M5395

These states would not oblige players to be pupeteered, they only gives bonus, for exemple :

"hold the point"- this state provide huge defensive bonus to group members, but slow down their running speed, made basically for defensive situations

"assault" - this state is used for assault as then ame say... this state provide additional running speed, a better accuracy while running, bonus to KD and supression moves

"complete thrust" this is the standard state while being grouped with a SL, give passiv mind armor and regenerativ bonuses, healing bonus, accuracy, terrain negociation and lower ham cost.

( these are not exaclty like in my post, I will rework it and post it here soon )

Ok... I see what you are saying.

How about this: Much like the player city specializations (bonuses to medical heals, bonuses to crafting, etc) have a "Area of Battle" command that sets a radius within which your group will gain bonuses to combat, bonuses for medical healing, etc. This is kinda like how rally is supposed to work now... so maybe its not such a good idea.