Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Need some advice. Being told that im wrong in the way Im being SL
Ok here it is...and soem of this had to make me laugh, some of it ticked me off. Id liek some advice and feedback on what you all think.
So today a member of my guild gets in a heated debate wiht me about the way i handle groups. Telling me im doing it wrong and that Im looking at how i do things wrong and just overall looking at SL wrong, basically.
When im in a group i use sys commands which i have macrod (such as "Target this target" in red or "Assist ont his target NOW") and other commands. I have macros for "heal this member" "take point" etc etc.
When im leading i use these commands..and also give out verbal commands and warnings. If a member of the group is like 60m away and not helping, I get on them to get up with the group and help out. If the medic isnt healing, or isnt even by the group, i get on them to come heal before anyone dies or whatever. If someone goes AFK, puts me on follow, and DOESNT tell me they are going afk, i tell them not to do that anymore. I dont care if they go afk, but they HAVE to tell me so i know they arent there and cant respond to situations.
Basically..I do what I believe an SL SHOULD do if he is trying to be an actual leader. I give orders, I make suggestions and critiques sometimes, I get peopel to do things I think need to be doen to make the group effective. I make the group effective, give it focus, and overall provide a structure and organization during combats.
Now im being told im asking too much. I shouldnt be giving orders. I shouldnt be telling people what to do. "If peopel are having fun, then why does that matter?" When i asked.."if person A is up at the front gate of tusken fort, and the rest of the group is down in the tunnels 60m away, and the group could use some help and person A responds 'im having fun where im at' and does not come to help...then is that group being effective? is that ok?" to which this person responded "if peopel are having fun then it should be ok" i was told thata medic shouldnt necessarily have to stick by me to "bail us out of soem mess you get us into" etc etc.
am i missing soemhting here? I always thought that groups SHOULD stick together to be more effective and help each other....irregardless of fun or not. Thats why you got into a group.
i thought an SL was SUPPOSED to give structure and order in a battle. I thought we were supposed to give some orders and get peopel to do things if they weret doign them in order to increase the groups effectiveness.
am i wrong? Or am i completely off the mark giving my orders and expecting them to be listened to a majority % of the time?
But for the most important part, you need to know how to make it fun for others. I don't think a full "issue order" treatment would be accepted kindly by everyone; if you want that just get CH and order your pets around as you wish. One of the greatest virtues of human players is their level of creativy and improvisation. You should try it too!
If you have a black sheep in your group, just tighten the grip and kick him out. I've had to do that a couple of times and the experience tends to get better for everyone (people normally don't like troublemakers). Also, good communication skills work. The best you type and say things, the better they will understand you and the better they will feel like in a true group (there's nothing than the feeling of being led by some lame gamer, it sucks).
Good luck to you Panzer
bah!
you imperial gimp :-p
you know Magi, you should move everyone to bloodfin heh. Id love to romp around with you guys. Ill give you free citizenship!
I'm not sure if this is what Lux was saying but... Here's how I go about it.
You dont need to be the groups leader to lead it. If there is a stronger personality in the group i'll usually let them take the lead.
What I usually end up doing as group leader is actually putting the group together, providing guidance for those that need it, and keeping the group together.
Try NOT to come across as bossy... Dont Demand that any strayplayers report at once, but suggest to them, and if that fails (if they refuse to cooperate) boot'em.
When you invite a player you've recruited, you generally have some idea of their maturity level, and mental capacity ( I do anyways... or atleast try to). So don't lose patience with someone just because they're slow. If they constantly lag behind, ask them to leave. Still want to be nice though, cause you dont want to burn bridges.
I guess, what i'm tryin' to say is, you want to be laid back... barking orders is a good way to stiffen someones back, and threaten their pride. If you content yourself with keeping the group focused using a light touch, you can lead people without them realizing they've been lead.
Get what i'm sayin?Thats just my approach, one of many I'm sure. It works for me, though, and I have loads of fun, get loads of xp, and have loads of people who are happy to group with me (even though I do nothing for the group ... )
Roleplaying the Sargeant Slaughter can be fun too...but I think in order to pull it off, your team needs to know that it's roleplay. Call somebody "Pyle!!!" when you yell at them to get back in line, and maybe they'll catch the joke!
Most importantly: Never never NEVER forget that it is just a game. We're ALL trying to have fun, but if you're having fun at someone else's expense, you are no longer leading...you are griefing.
There is a famous saying that I can't quite remember, but paraphrasing, its something like:
"A general makes his troops follow orders. A LEADER makes them want to."
There are times that a tight group is required, and times where you need to just relax and have fun. Remember that these are other PEOPLE you are dealing with, and if you are getting on to them everytime they aren't doing what you think they should be, you are going to become a source of irritation for them.
If these are people you hunt with all the time, is it really necessary to spell out every order all the time?
If I'm hunting with a group of strangersI formed at the Starport, I initially set ground rules. The only rules are:
1) Only the person I tell to is allowed to shoot the lair. If you persist on doing it, you will be removed from the group.
2) Have fun.
You don't NEED to tell a medic how to do their job. They know. If someone is hanging back, there may be a real reason for it. Hopefully you're not jumping the gun and as soon as you notice it berating them. If it becomes a pattern and they really aren't participating in the group, send them a private tell. Don't use sysgroup or group messages as it just pisses people off.
Also, dont abuse sysgroup. Some people find it extremely annoying to be ordered around all the time. Do the minimum that needs to be done to organize the group and do the rest in regular group chat.
And if you are a GOOD leader, you should only have to rule with an iron first for the first 20-30 minutes. After that, everyone should know their role and the main thing you should be doing is keeping the group moving from one mission to another in an efficient manner. As long as nobody's getting killed (thus wasting theirs and the groups time), just relax a little.
Part of being a leader is knowing when to NOT give orders.
I'll keep it short:
1) "I have macros for "heal this member"" Get rid of them. Medics take this as an affront to their skills. If a medic isn't pulling their weight, see#2.
2) Use /tell to talk to people in a non-critical situation. If a medic is slow on the heals durring say, the takedown of a rancor, once you are finished, talk to them using /tell. Of course, if it is serious, (some n00b starts blasting away at the krayt you are avoiding) feal free to yell.
3) Your job is to make shure people don't die, and to reduce downtime. (of course, death is a form of downtime, so it kind of falls in the same catigory) If no one dies, and there is minimal downtime, most people will have fun in your squad. Do what you need to do to achieve those ends.
Enix_Dayspring wrote:"A general makes his troops follow orders. A LEADER makes them want to."
This is the esence of our profession
did a krayt hunt tonigth and no one died
i was a bit more polite in SOME areas...but not many
pretty much did things the way i always do them, did a few more tells than open chat. Other than that pretty much the same
no one died..everyone said they had fun
i still cant figure out what i was doing wrong befor elol
and i never used the "heal member" thing unless it was essential. Ive had times wher elike our doctor has been out, or a commando or some key member for the situation we are in...have them be down for like a minute and the other healers arent getting them up on their feet. That sthe kind of stuff i use it for.
Sounds to me like you need a new hunting group. Different people have fun in different ways. For some people, griefing is fun. For others, casual play. For others, just charging with guns blazing is fun. Im assuming you took the SL profession, because you find that creating tactical solutions to challenges and problems presented is how you have fun. Im the same way. There is nothing wrong with that. What you need to do, is tell those people that this is how YOU have fun. If your way isnt fun for them, then you wont group with them. Find other like-minded players to group with.
NarCranor wrote:
Sounds to me like you need a new hunting group. Different people have fun in different ways. For some people, griefing is fun. For others, casual play. For others, just charging with guns blazing is fun. Im assuming you took the SL profession, because you find that creating tactical solutions to challenges and problems presented is how you have fun. Im the same way. There is nothing wrong with that. What you need to do, is tell those people that this is how YOU have fun. If your way isnt fun for them, then you wont group with them. Find other like-minded players to group with.
that was pretty much my thinking as well.
only thing is they are people in my guild....and im the leader 