Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Official : Informing the Dev's of Our Thoughts on the New Abilities
Before I go formulate a huge protest letter on the new abilities, I wanted to see how many people are completely satisfied with the proposed new abilities and think they will greatly improve the class. I do not wish to submit a letter of displeasure until I've established at leasta very high percentageof the community agrees with it. I also do not want to submit one before I personally test the new things on Test Center, unless the community thinks it's neccesary to do so ahead of time.
Please post your thoughts and comments.
I'm completely against them as I feel the vast majority is, and while I'd love to see a protest letter go up ASAP, I have to agree that you should wait it out and test it out on the TC. That'll provide a lot more validity to your claim and give a more first-hand experience to them of your distaste for the changes.
Not much interesting here though, just giving you a vote of agreement and support.
As a Novice Squad Leader, i agree with most people that the new abilities treat group members like puppets and promotes AFKers.
Black-Fox
I like forced march.
Smoke em if you got em would be cool if they allowed the mind regen outside of a camp and preferably allowed it while in combat as well.
I strongly dislike the rest of them.
I'm completely DISsatisfied.
I do think it's important to let the devs know this ASAP, rather than wait to test them on test center. Once they're on test center, the code is written. It will be far less likely they'll change their minds then.
Here's my thoughts.
You chose this class. Knowing what the skills were, and that they were rather lackluster to start with.
Then, if you read any posts prior to become an SL, you also knew the exp grind was HUGE!
Now, the dev's have boosted the class, given us some new abilities they think belong in the SL class, and in THEIR GAME.
Yet you bitch and whine about them.
Choose another class. Be a CH, since that is what most of you want, is to lead your pets, and get SL exp for it.
I'm all for the class. And the skills they are giving us. I think we need a correspondant who will support the class, rather than trying to remake it. If you want to remake the class, get a job with SOE. Untill then, try being constructive.
Kryibacca,
Chilastra Ranger/SL
After considerable debate in the Squad Leader Forum here are the concerns about the new skill proposals:
#1) New Powers for Squad Leaders don't add any new ABILITIES.
The majority are triggers for actions that players SHOULD be taking anyway.
#2) New Powers for Squad Leaders only help POOR PLAYERS.
As a player gets more experience they learn when to shoot and not to shoot. What do the SL abilities offer advanced players?
#3) New Powers for Squad Leaders offer a LESS RITCH experience to group members.
With new commands a group member’s entire combat process may be automated for them. One wonders what is left to do for members of Squad Leader Group.
#4) New Powers for Squad Leaders still offer a VERY POOR return on SKILL POINTS.
For the number of skill points spent, simply triggering abilities OTHER players should be taking anyway. You can get 95% there with a simple /sysgroup macro.
#5) New Powers for Squad Leaders will still leave SL’s as not-coveted group members.
In fact people may NOT want a controlling SL and they will become LESS desirable to have in groups. It's much more important to have other professions in a Squad than Squad Leaders. For example; A Combat Medic has a large effect on the outcome of battles. Doctors with buffs and revive make a massive difference. Creature Handlers with large pets provide large tanks. Rangers with the big camps allow for quick healing. Etc …
hawkbatleader1 wrote:Here's my thoughts.
Be a CH, since that is what most of you want, is to lead your pets, and get SL exp for it.
I'm all for the class. And the skills they are giving us. I think we need a correspondant who will support the class, rather than trying to remake it. If you want to remake the class, get a job with SOE. Untill then, try being constructive.
Kryibacca,
Chilastra Ranger/SL
I think you haven't been reading our posts.
A vast majority of the backlash has provided TONS of positive, constructive ideas.
The major backlash is because we don't want to be a pet class...(although human pets), why would we go CH when that's what we are fighting against?
I personally like Forced March, and Smoke-em-if-you-got-em, the rest is eh....
The question posed: Am I completely satisfied with the proposed changes?
Answer: No.
Explanation: They do not address our initial problems. They don't provide the sort of useful functionality, skills and abilities I could obtain by progressing in almost any other elite profession. While just about anything would make the class better, a marginal improvement of an initially useless class does not cross the line and make it useFUL. Also, the proposed changes aren't in a form that can be taken in any sort of context. I need to know what the class will be able to do as a whole, with each of its four skill trees, to make a decision on it. The proposed changes look very dubious, not very well thought out, and thus I am skeptical of them, and not satisfied.
I surrendered my first SL skill today. If things don't start to look like they're on a better path pretty soon, I predict thatmore skills will be following that first one.
Kaldimaar2 wrote:I surrendered my first SL skill today. If things don't start to look like they're on a better path pretty soon, I predict that more skills will be following that first one.
"I'll cut 1 finger off every day till you listen!"
Hello everyone !!
I discussed the upcoming abilities with my groupmates. I showed them only the list of the new abilities. I didn`t comment it and waited, to see their reactions. 5 of them weren't very pleased, 2 of them wanted to see on Test Center how things would work.
Questions and reactions like those here appeared: "What happens with my pets? Will they be affected by your Group commands? If so, then i'm strictly against those changes. Or you just don't use the commands, then it's fine for me.", "What does that mean? You can control when and where i can fire? What am i supposed to do in that game?","Hey... why don`t you just sit back and relax. Just use your rifle like before and we use your passive skillmods."
My personal opinion of those new abilities is, that this just isn`t the way i wanted to play the squadleader. I led many groups in DAoC. Not the big raids, just those little groups that shuffled together to get some decent EXP and have fun together. Believe me the groups i arranged were far from that what people would call a "Perfect Group". My char was a scout, and scouts were really the last thing you would invite into your group if you're going on a hunt. Because of that i had to arrange the groups around me.
Let me just tell about a Situation, i can remember, that took us to Forest Sauvage to this great green Giants. I can't remember their exact name. We were a group in the mid levels (20-23 i guess) and tried to hunt those giants down. It went well some time, when suddenly the giants grouped and we had to deal with not just one or two of them at a time, but 4 or 5. In a group counting max only 8 members, you can imagine what it meant. I heard someone say: "Healer run" as this were the keywords for "death invites you for a dance now". I told my group all the time before that, no matter what happens, noone should run from the fight. Not before i would give the command to do so. I just yelled a "Keep your positions" and they all got ready and waited for the clash. With all the "orders i told" them before, and explaining how each player should react in certain situations (Getting aggro away from the healers and wizards, showing the people how critical situations could arise and how they could be prevented). The wizard knew where he had to snare. The tanks knew they had to get the attention off the healers and wizards. We won the fight and everyone just couldn't believe that not a single person fell in that fight. The feeling the groupmembers felt for the rest of the evening was simply high-spirited. They cheered and where really overwhelmed how they stood together as a group. They knew, that they had done the best job. Not the Group Leader. I just gave the manual. They had to act appropriate and it were their skills and abilities that led the group to victory.
Of course not every evening things went that way. You had different members, i couldn't tell people what i wanted, like i could one evening before. There were good days and bad days. But at my best will, i can`t imagine that the new commands could give me and my groupmates an experience we got that evening. Sure some will tell that they got that, when they fought that dark jedi with their group last week. But was there a SL in the group that kept you in position just by his trigger? That didn`t react appropriate when you suddenly where attacked, and he didn't realize because he didn`t knew. And you just couldn't defend and suppress the enemy because the SL triggered you to hold the fire? No, there wasn't. Maybe there was just a SL that lend you his defense modifiers. But thats not my playstyle. Sorry for that.
Imho the SL in SWG is a really misunderstood Profession. If the Squadleader is intended like all other professions, then we all should get together and think about totally new Skilltiers. Abilities that make him unique in his role (Officers are able to call artillery support to help their troops. Officers are able to prepare ambushes with their troops and prevent them from detection by Radar jamming activities.) That are just examples that maybe wouldn`t work with the game mechanics. I know that. But that would make the role unique and give him abilities to power up the group.
Yes... i'm pointing towards you PanzerGR and some others, who are always repeating "It works in real world Armys". In RL you can force people by disciplinary measures. In a game such things doesn`t work really well. I can see your point, that those tactics (Formations and all that stuff) brought i.e. the Romans absolut power over the Known World (except a little gaul village) in their time. But i'm sure we can't reach that goal by triggering people via commands. What you describe in the RL Armys, works just because it is tought and exercised over months and months in endless repetitions. Groups exercise their acting and reacting in different situations, so that every member of a Squad know where his place is when it comes to the worst. If you want that, then just group every time with the same people and exercise your tactics and moves. This will work for sure.
Trying to give the SL "Force via game commands" can't be the right way.
It were not the "commands" that the game gave me, that made the people listen to me. It was just the team-orientated communication and some time that showed people how good the group could work.
If the changes like proposed should come, i'm absolutely sure there will be a long, long time no change in that profession. And that would be the worst thing i can see down the road. Better not make haste and let us think about other possibilities.
So... to make a long post short. I'm against the changes, because this wouldn't be the style i want to play that profession and none of my groupmates would want me to play with that abilities.
Thx for reading
Cyrus Holliday
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