Squad Leader Archive
Thread: ideas for new skill trees (please repond constructively)
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Therascalking3
Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:23 am
#1
i personally think the skill trees of SL need to be rewritten. Take for instance the fact that tactics and strategies are virtually the same thing. Here are some of my suggestions for the change up;
ligistics (sp?): thisbranch should have movement related things (terrain negotiation, burst run efficiency, dropzone idea)
squad toughness: this branch should have group passive bonuses for defense and attack as well as active commands (steady aim, volley fire, ham pool targeting idea you know like "take out his legs" kind of thing)
leadership: this branch could have all of the commands that help the SL interact with the group (special waypoint idea, sysgroup) as well as things like retreat and formup that command the group to move together or get up and follow the SL's lead
fortification: if included this branch could deal with the forts idea of making trenches, bunkers, and stronghold bases that provide certain buffs to defense and attack depending on the type of fort made. Forts can vary in quality as well based on used materials. Forts would greatly enhance the visual experience of pvp as well as the immersiveness of the game and i think they should definitely be included.
ok im running out of time for this post so im just gonna leave it at that for now. Please respond with serious ideas as im hoping if we can get an organized vision in the community with some ideas the devs like then we can speed up the revamp process.
R07Krayt
Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:15 pm
#2
Some thoughts:
Logistics deals with the transfer of necissary supplies and equipment. It would be a better name for the ability to have a droid you could requesition equipment from, call in squad transports, things like that. Movement bonuses should be in something else.
As far as the toughness line goes, I actually favor more active skills than passive ones. The problem with passive skills, is if they get to be too much, they become unbalancing. For instance, right now an AFK Squad leader can provide every person in a solo group a +30 to ranged and melee defense, and a +50 or something to terrain negotiation. In some ways that seems a little excessive to me. Asking for more defensive modifiers may be a bit much. Also, it seems you are trying to put too much into one tree. I doubt we'll see two or three abilities gained per box, it makes the whole skill tree unbalanced.
I like the fortifications idea. Would be great to be able to place bases which a group could operate out of for a few hours while in the field, and could make some interesting PVP encounters as fortifications are put up around an existing player base.
Leadership line is one too that's pretty vague. It's a little hard now to see which line could essentially be dropped in favor of new content like the fortications. Perhaps some of the leadership skills and terrain negotiation could be combined. (I personally feel that we could do without the bonus to burst run efficiency. We don't use it to get around much anymore, but the terrain negotiation is still useful for moving people around during a battlefield.
Hope this generates more ideas and discussion on the topic.
Alrick Durgan,
Squad Leader
Logistics deals with the transfer of necissary supplies and equipment. It would be a better name for the ability to have a droid you could requesition equipment from, call in squad transports, things like that. Movement bonuses should be in something else.
As far as the toughness line goes, I actually favor more active skills than passive ones. The problem with passive skills, is if they get to be too much, they become unbalancing. For instance, right now an AFK Squad leader can provide every person in a solo group a +30 to ranged and melee defense, and a +50 or something to terrain negotiation. In some ways that seems a little excessive to me. Asking for more defensive modifiers may be a bit much. Also, it seems you are trying to put too much into one tree. I doubt we'll see two or three abilities gained per box, it makes the whole skill tree unbalanced.
I like the fortifications idea. Would be great to be able to place bases which a group could operate out of for a few hours while in the field, and could make some interesting PVP encounters as fortifications are put up around an existing player base.
Leadership line is one too that's pretty vague. It's a little hard now to see which line could essentially be dropped in favor of new content like the fortications. Perhaps some of the leadership skills and terrain negotiation could be combined. (I personally feel that we could do without the bonus to burst run efficiency. We don't use it to get around much anymore, but the terrain negotiation is still useful for moving people around during a battlefield.
Hope this generates more ideas and discussion on the topic.
Alrick Durgan,
Squad Leader
MedicalSuppliesSalesman
Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:44 pm
#3
I would also like to propose combining a tree (mobility?) with a new skill mod and commands that wouldbe focused towards Space combat. For example,
Evaisive Manuvures: Adds -accuaracy to all shots against a group member at the expense of SL's HAM
Share Ammunition: Transfers ammunition of bombs, laser energy, etc from group member to memberonly with the consent of the giving member.
The Mobility tree would have the same mods, but with the added effects of +s of the commands on each II and IV tree. The tree could be renamed to Ground and Space Manuvures or something better.
The_Azure_Phoenix
Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:36 am
#4
Nice thinking ahead, Sisio.
The more I hear it talked about, and the more i notice, it would also be nice to have an SL exclusive weapon. Just throwing that out as an Idea... as for the rest, i will post when there is more for me to work with 
DarkJediChase
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:32 pm
#5
Okay guys I posted this earlier but it was such a long post over such a long time that I never got it posted cos my login timed out... so I'm trying to reconstruct it, and hope it sounds something similar.
Comments on Previous Posts
1) Like the idea of logisitics but maybe not the ammo idea. I agree we need to drop the burst run bonuses cos they're just irrelevant now. Definately looking for the dropship ideas in some shape or form too.
2) I agree about passive bonuses. I'd much rather have a load of cool activated abilites than a load of passive things. It just makes it more fun to play.
3) Loving the idea of forts... so much potential here if we can just get the rangers to see that its not treading on their toes. Serious kudos to whoever had this idea originally.
4) Space.... erm... please tell me that Squad Leaders aren't going to be the same in space... I don't want to share our profession between ground and space combat. Make a space specific role if need be, something like Wing Commander or something.
My Suggested Trees
Logistics -Okay in here but the terrain move bonuses. Scrap the burst run stuff. Put in the dropzone/ship stuff here as well. Maybe make the dropship high up on this tree. Also add in a special way of designating waypoints for the whole group. This is very much needed.
S.W.A.T (Special Weapons and Tactics) - Put in here most of the activated battle abilitie. Things that you use during combat such as HAM specific targeting, form up, rally, painting specific targets. Also put in some minor passive bonuses to weapons justified by you giving your squad tactics on using them, making them more effective. Also in this section I would put a command called Assist Fire (see below).
Fortifications - Like I said I love this idea. Start of with some simple sand bags and stuff and move up to forts with sentry positions (places which increase range and defense). Make at least some of the forts require a ranger's camp to be present especially for the more advanced things. Possibly add some bonuses to defenses here too.
Special Command - This branch would deal with the core command things. In here I'd like to see the idea of designation (see below for details). And then also some increased bonuses to the designated roles. Also maybe put retreat here (wasn't sure it went with tactics).
Expanded Ideas
Assist Fire - This idea would work basically like each person using the assist command. But instead of each person doing it, it would be the squad leader doing it for them. Obviously this would be annoying for some people if they didn't want to target with the leader. So you would have to get your whole squad (or anyone willing) to put "/assiston" to allow you to use that person. Could also be turned off with "/assistoff". This would be a very useful command to have in my opinion. After all if a squad leader says "attack my target..." everyone really should do it.
Designation - This idea basically involves the squad leader being able to designate one person to fill a specific role within the group. For example one person could be named Scout, they would get a bonus to their maskscent and terrain negotiation skills. One person could be a designated medic and get a boost to healing abilities. A tank might get a boost to melee defense... while a sniper might get increase ranged. Each person would only be allowed one role and the squad leader could not have one themself.
Second in Command - This is another thing really under designation. But at the highest level of Special command, the Squad leader could designate a Second in command. This person would have some of the powers of the squad/group leader. They would be allowed to kick/add people to/from the group. And if they were a squad leader themself they would earn a small proportion of Squad Leader XP as well being able to use some of the minor commands (sysgroup, build small fortifications, paint targets) but would not give any passive bonuses to the group. I think this is a really good idea for Squad Leader, as unlike other professions there is really no point in more than one Squad Leader in each group. This would at least allow for two and make a more "realistic" command structure.
Possible Idea
I know there are a lot of problems with how Dropships might work. But another idea that someone suggested to me was the idea of an APC that the Squad Leader could have the schematic to and be able to drive. It would allow upto so many people to all travel together in a safe vehicle. And means if one person doesn't have a vehicle that everyone has to wait for them. Would be seriously funky to see this. I'm not suggesting we all get AT-AT's but there must be other designs for something like this. This would be a seriously cool thing to roll up outside an enemy fort and 10 member of your group jump out and start laying down fire... definately a must see.
Anyway thats all my ideas. I'd really like to hear some feedback. Please don't flame me for this. I'm still fairly new to both the game and to Squad Leader. Maybe all my ideas have been done before but please don't have a go at me just cos of this.
Scarleta Carrin - Flurry
Therascalking3
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:06 pm
#6
i used to be a fan of the SL weapon but i realize know it is not necessary because the SL needs ranged support of Marksman anyway so they might as well just train a blaster type weapon and use that. The whole profession would be much more effective than a sing branch of SL devoted to a weapon and SL's have other things to put in their Skill trees that take precedence over a weapon. Maybe make ranged support worth some really good stuf or make a ranged support weapon who knows but i dont think SL has a branch to dedicate to a weapon.
The_Azure_Phoenix
Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:51 am
#8
I am liking the vehicle idea. They could easily design a APC that is neutral useable by both sides. Though make it a SL only schematic craftable by master Artisans. It could hold the full group if willing. They would still have the option to ride their bikes otherwise. I think it would be cool to see an APC with 4-5 Speederbikes pull up to a fight. For faction oreinted combat, the APC is attackable not the people inside, once the APC is disabled the members automatically get ejected from the vehicle and forced to fight. The lot idea on forts.....not a big fan of that....I think damage and time should be the factors. and i think a ranger base camp would help make rangers feel needed. I still would like to see the idea of a possible SL only weapon.....
Seclus
Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:02 am
#9
I have given ideas in the past but I typicaly feel left out
1. I think under tatics we should get a battle tatic that we can use to boast our Squads performance. Only one tatic can be used at one time but can beswitched to at anytime by the SL I think tatics should act more like a dancers ability where the you can use the tatic and it will stay in place as long as the SL can keep providing the ham cost.
first tatic you lean should be Range Combat. if a SL uses this ability all Squad members gain range accuracy and range deffence. To encourage more combats to actually not run around increase the damge while this is in effect for range ppl when the change positions 25% bonus for kneeling and 40% for prone.
second tatic Close Quarters Combat. Increase melee range by 10 meters, turn on meleefighters center of being,increse melee deffence. Also switch all weapons modifiers to 0 at point plank -30 ideal -60 max. this will effect range attakers so riffles can now hit up close but now miss far away.
third tatic Over Run. members gain Immuinty to intimidate, warcry, blind and stun, Allso +25 to knock down and +15 to accuracy. However all squad members lose passive effects from the squad leader as this ability is a bit uncontrolled.
fourth tatic High Alert. This tatic would allow melee defence range defence as well as provide additional secondary bonus +15 to knock down, +15 blind, +25 to resist poison, +25 resist desiease, and +10 to alert. as well as provide melee midagation 3 and range midagation 3. also allows rescue and taunt to recive a +30 to hit
fith (at master) Serch and Destroy. Squad gains.Melee and range accuracy +25,15% extra damage standing25% kneeling and40% prone. No passive abilities from Squadleader as this is ment to keep the squad more mobile and un concerned about defence.
Well thats sums up what I would like to see under tatics this will give the SL dessions that can only help the team but obviously in certain situations some would be better then others.
Under stratagies
At the first box skill /formup cures dizzy.as a SL in creases in his tree he should get more statuis he can fix in one shot by master a SL should be able to re move Intimidate, stun, dizzy, warcry, range deffence down and melee defence down. (hold on I will explaine range/melee deffence down in a moment.)
second box 5 group melee defence. formup now cures stun
third box 5 to group melee defence.formup now cures intimidate
fourth box /boastmoral (keep it the same). and 5 group melee defence Formup now cures warcry.
Mobility drop burstrun effciency but keep the same with terrein negoation. Maybe add drop ship waypoints and when JTL comes out a SL can drop his entire crew off at the site to attack much like the unloading of Stormtroopers on theed.
2box on mobility should be retreat.
Leadership.
First box /steadyaim and 5 grouprange defence
secondbox +10 steady aim and5 group range range defence
thirdbox /rally 5%damage bonus and 10 to accuracy for limited time and 5 group range defence
fourth box 5 group range deffence additonal +10 to rally accuracy.
Master SL:10 to group melee and range defence. formup now cures range defence down and melee defence down.
Search and destroy as a battle tatic. gain the ability to demorlize the opposition. Works only against npc and players in combat, creatures are unaffected. /propaganda cause intimade, stun, warcry, range defence down and melee defence down. All members not in your squad are not affected obviously. draw back someone on the same faction in combat could be affected by your proaganda so be careful.
well my ideas some good some not so good but I think this could be a huge balancing for the SP cost we need be squadleader plus have attractive abilites to help groups in pve as well as pvp not to mention much less spaming as tatics won'y need constant clicking with shouts if they are like dancer skills ticking off per few seconds vs spamming and the support skills like /steadyaim,/formup,/rally,/boastmoral will now be the HAM pool costers and used spareingly while the tatics are used for the primary deffences. maybe the numbes will need fixing but this what I would like to see, I think this could reallt benifit the profession I hope someone reads this.
Message Edited by Seclus on 09-16-2004 06:30 AM
Therascalking3
Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:08 am
#10
actually i like pretty much everything in here.
My only comments are
-no forts (but you may not like them so whatever lol)
-a charge command instead of retreat for leading troops into battle since that is what we use it for anyway
-add vehicle speed and vehicle terrain negotiation to mobility tree
-why only the bonus to melee defense? we have ranged support as a pre req we should provide ranged defense unless you reserve that for in forts
-high alert and search and destroy should be switched in their boxes
-boostmoral doesnt make sense because we arent doctors yet we allocate wounds. We should replace that with the either /ranksInspection or the revamped boost moral which basically does like a mini buff to secondaries (however that might conflict with HAM revamp)
-you left out the Targeter ability which i like a lot
Seclus
Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:03 pm
#11
I left out forts and targeting cause you can /assit so if everyone clicks on you when you use a sys command you will have the same thing without adding a skill in the SL sheet I'd like to remove the surval branch as a requirement so I didn't add forts. I have both range and meele deffence I placed them under diffrent branches there should be 30 to both group melee and range defence by the time you reach master like there is now.
I reall do like improveing vechicl negoatation and speed rates Thats a cool addtion!!.
I like the targeting ideal as well but there is a set amount of abilites each profession gets so I left out some of the stuff we have to suggest tatics that use ham cost over time instead of some other abilities we have that noone realy uses
I also agree that /retreat should be renamed into a more neutral command ment for charging in and for a quick get away like /moveout or /groupspeedburst
nice to have a reply but like I say its just some ideas that maybe no has thought of feel free to add them with your own ideas and come up with your own idea of what a SL should do in battle and stop being a lame usless puppet on the field of battle like they are now I hate being told when I can and cannot use rally and ect.
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