Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Possible Squad Leader Weapon: New Carbine
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BlakkStar
Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:58 pm
#1
Considering that Pistols are enhanced through BH and Smuggler, I was thinking of this idea for carbine. As Squad Leaders are looking for their own signature weapon, adding a new carbine and including carbine mods and specials in one of the trees might prove beneficial to both professions. As it stands now, carbines are most useful in combat as support as their damage isn't great but they have a nice variety of status/cone attacks. Plus the SL wep could add a new damage type to the Carbineer profession (AP2 blast would be nice but unlikely)Of course the major downfall of this move would promote Carbineer as the profession of choice for Squad Leaders. OVerall I dont see a new Squad Leader weapon coming in the form of a weapon that only fits in the Squad Leader profession independent of other professions (like Commando weps). But both professions could get something outta this.
Just a thought, flame or let it die...
BTW I've never been a Carbineer and though I have been an SL I mainly am a Ranger. Loved the profession, hated the execution (much like Ranger:smileysad
. I frequent these boards because I hope I love SLs and hope for increased Ranger/SL synergy in core mechanic skills someday...
. I frequent these boards because I hope I love SLs and hope for increased Ranger/SL synergy in core mechanic skills someday...
Landorien
Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:12 am
#2
Doesn't carbine have a majorbenefactor in bounty hunter as it is?
I'd rather see some sort of mounted weapon for the squad leader, like someone else suggested in some other thread which mainly imposes various states and effectsas an AOE.
MailekEOC
Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:08 pm
#3
We don't need a SL carbine or special weapon, what we need is a Com Link that is certified only to us.
Landorien
Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:34 pm
#4
Hmm.. subject digressed quickly, and I'm feeling somewhat responsible.
So instead ofbadgeringwith my proposal, I'll just butcher yours
The carbine is the weapon of choice, or lack thereof,for the grunt stormtroopers in the movies, whereas a more precise/light weapon like a pistol would be the preferred weapon for officers, as allocating his forces is the officers main duty anyway.
I'd say the squad leaders "certified weapon" should be his squad, which means enhancing his troops and the way they work, not himself.
Although some defensive bonuses for him and him alone is prudentsince in a proper fight the SL should be what the other side is aiming for first, and he should be able to if not hurt more, then certainly be able to take a harder beating. Perhaps by raising his armor rating significantly above normal, pending on how many meatshields/troops he command?
Digressing again, but I think this kind of direction would be the right way to go, as SL is a partyplayer and shouldn't be much use without the squad every single branch of his profession is made for.
BaronJedi
Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:07 pm
#5
I agree that our weapon is simply our squad.
But if we did get something it should maybe be something like Electro-binocs (with a nice animation as well). Just like Rangers can get extra info on creatures, it would allow for the SL to get extra info on humanoid NPCs and PCs from a distance. Profession, resists, defenses, maybe even armor 
"Hmmm, his knockdown resists are too high, but his helmet is vulnerable to stun damage."
*everyone whips out the jawas and geo pistols*
Okay...so maybe that should just be a Ranger thing but it is still a pretty cool concept IMO. Sitting there is your Stormtrooper armor, .....E11 in one hand, .....binocs in the another, ...with a visible SL shoulder pad. *drool* 
Blackferne
Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:55 pm
#6
I have always wanted those binocs Luke had in ANH. 
Anyhoo... I feel choosing one specific weapon that can be used by another class suggests there is a "correct" way to play SL. Sure you only get the cert for the SL carbine/pistol etc but the mods you have from pistoleer/carbineer/bh/smuggler etc etc carrry over. If we are going to have some special weapon it needs to have all of its certs/speed/damage come strictly from SL boxes much like the LLC for BH. (Note I am not advocating I want a heavy weapon)
As for pistol vs carbine. Pistol seems more officer like. Carbine seems more assault/raid leader like. I don't care which as I'm a MBH and have good bonuses either way.
Blamj
Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:04 pm
#7
BlakkStar wrote:
Considering that Pistols are enhanced through BH and Smuggler, I was thinking of this idea for carbine. As Squad Leaders are looking for their own signature weapon, adding a new carbine and including carbine mods and specials in one of the trees might prove beneficial to both professions. As it stands now, carbines are most useful in combat as support as their damage isn't great but they have a nice variety of status/cone attacks. Plus the SL wep could add a new damage type to the Carbineer profession (AP2 blast would be nice but unlikely)Of course the major downfall of this move would promote Carbineer as the profession of choice for Squad Leaders. OVerall I dont see a new Squad Leader weapon coming in the form of a weapon that only fits in the Squad Leader profession independent of other professions (like Commando weps). But both professions could get something outta this.
Just a thought, flame or let it die...
BTW I've never been a Carbineer and though I have been an SL I mainly am a Ranger. Loved the profession, hated the execution (much like Ranger:smileysad
I love this idea! It's a common fact that alot of squad leaders are carbiners also.. I think this is a great idea!
Blamj
Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:07 pm
#8
Landorien wrote:
Hmm.. subject digressed quickly, and I'm feeling somewhat responsible.
So instead ofbadgeringwith my proposal, I'll just butcher yours
The carbine is the weapon of choice, or lack thereof,for the grunt stormtroopers in the movies, whereas a more precise/light weapon like a pistol would be the preferred weapon for officers, as allocating his forces is the officers main duty anyway.
I'd say the squad leaders "certified weapon" should be his squad, which means enhancing his troops and the way they work, not himself.
Although some defensive bonuses for him and him alone is prudentsince in a proper fight the SL should be what the other side is aiming for first, and he should be able to if not hurt more, then certainly be able to take a harder beating. Perhaps by raising his armor rating significantly above normal, pending on how many meatshields/troops he command?
Digressing again, but I think this kind of direction would be the right way to go, as SL is a partyplayer and shouldn't be much use without the squad every single branch of his profession is made for.
You have to remember that Squad leaders isn't an officer.
Squad leaders are usally Sargeants.
So they would be equipped with a Carbine, and not a pistol. Pistols are a sidearm for officers.
Do not confuse officers with squad leaders. They're entirely two seperate things.. Yes an officer can command a squad but he would not be using a pistol if he was commanding a squad.
Like look at Vietnam. LTs and Captains carried M-16s.. not pistols
Message Edited by Blamj on 10-02-2004 08:40 PM
Merc93
Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:34 am
#9
Well SL's definitely need something and some damage mitigation to go with it to make it even, and a carbine is fitting for the stereo-type for a SL...but so is a Rifle. Okay, so now you have a special weapon. Now instead of being a SL, now you're a "Carbineer" or your a "Commando". I'm sure no one care as long as they get their weapon, but I wouldhave expected a Squad Leader's weapon to be something more fitting to the spirit of his weapon. Sure, you have your specialists, like Rifleman and Carbineer, but I've always been of the opinion that 5 guns are better than 1 gun, and with a lttile correction and SL bonuses behind them, is all the weapon you'll ever need.
But because people would rather make a Squad Leader like a Commando or a specialist, I have no desire to play it, because those other professions are here now, not next year, and will probably handled their weapons better anyway. They're specialists. That's what they do. Squad Leaders, aren't.
Perhaps the best and most fitting idea I saw for a SL weapon, apart from being able to command his own squad, (duh) was a Comm Link. This was propsed by Mailek in the In Concept forum. the Comm Link would enable the SL to call in support such as orbital bombardments, artillery strikes, or NPC reinforcements. The weakness in this idea, is that you to wait for the effects of each of these, and you could only use it once in a while, unlike a gun. If you're not able to group with your buddies for whatever reason, then your really dead in the water. If you have your own special weapon, then you're not a SL, then your a weapon specialist, so why bother? Why not just play a Rifleman or a Commando and cut to the chase?
At any rate, I think the solutions don't fit the profession, but only favor a few people. They'll see soon enough the weakness in their design, and we'll be back revisiting this topic again before it's resolved. it's a pity too, because I had such high hopes for this profession, and it seems a few people want to turn a blind eye to the spirit of it, and make it something it shouldn't be. It's completely ruined, because it will always be a part-time profession now.
I've noticed more and more of my posts have been getting deleted lately. It seems somebody can't handle criticism, so I expect this post will be deleted too, and they'll turn a blind eye to the complaint I voice that's been echoed by otehrs, just they're turning a blind eye to the profession.
It's up to you, the SL's in SWG to make something of this profession. Don't place much stock in someone else doing it for you.
Landorien
Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:29 am
#10
..or sword, but it still isn't right to push squad leaders towards a "correct" combat template. As another stated in this, there are specialist professions suited towards that.
Dabble if you must, but please don't weaken the SL by replacing one potentially useful teambranch with another line ofsemi useful carbine skills, which will indeniably be dependent on carbineer to be effective.
Or do we aim for a leader that lugs a weapon along, that is comparativelyslow and misses 80% of the time?
Blackferne
Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:35 pm
#11
That is essential to this debate. What we don't want is to prescribe the "best" way to play SL. Smuggler without Pistoleer seems weak. BH without either Carbineer or Pistoleer seems weak. Don't drive SLs to be something they may not want to be. If we end up with "the sample" or ranged special weapons that is cool, but if we don't and end up with one, it will drive there to be the obligatory complimentary profession (Which we all know should be Droid Engineer...duh
Landorien wrote:
..or sword, but it still isn't right to push squad leaders towards a "correct" combat template. As another stated in this, there are specialist professions suited towards that.
Dabble if you must, but please don't weaken the SL by replacing one potentially useful teambranch with another line ofsemi useful carbine skills, which will indeniably be dependent on carbineer to be effective.
Or do we aim for a leader that lugs a weapon along, that is comparativelyslow and misses 80% of the time?
)
Blamj
Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:05 pm
#12
Im sure Squad leader would be a hard to level but an excellent profession in the future
DiLune
Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:50 pm
#13
Blackferne wrote:
That is essential to this debate. What we don't want is to prescribe the "best" way to play SL. Smuggler without Pistoleer seems weak. BH without either Carbineer or Pistoleer seems weak. Don't drive SLs to be something they may not want to be. If we end up with "the sample" or ranged special weapons that is cool, but if we don't and end up with one, it will drive there to be the obligatory complimentary profession (Which we all know should be Droid Engineer...duh
Landorien wrote:
..or sword, but it still isn't right to push squad leaders towards a "correct" combat template. As another stated in this, there are specialist professions suited towards that.
Dabble if you must, but please don't weaken the SL by replacing one potentially useful teambranch with another line ofsemi useful carbine skills, which will indeniably be dependent on carbineer to be effective.
Or do we aim for a leader that lugs a weapon along, that is comparativelyslow and misses 80% of the time?
The CU will hopefully change the way all of this works.
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