Squad Leader Archive
Thread: This Week's Top 5 Prototype Countdown
1. Squad Leaders need to give everyone in the group a boost to their regeneration rates (increases with Squad Leader skill), since they are motivated to accomplish more and have higher morale.
2. Possibly eliminate the Volly Fire command and replace it with a 100% effective targeting command. All players in the group would automatically select the target designated by the Squad leader. The target would be selected for them, but the players would still have to initiate their own attacks. (I use "/sysgroup OPEN FIRE!" to tell my group to shoot)
3. I think the AIM command should be changed to a passive accuracy increase (similar to the Scout creature to hit bonus). People working with a Squad Leader would have higher accuracy under pressure/comabt due to the leadership. A total to hit bonus of +20 would be nice. That is all for now.
I'll start my list with the EASIEST things they can fix or implement in first, for a possibilty that it actually happens 
1> SYSGROUP: Make it colored different (Yellow/Red/Blue, something), and make it _BEEP_ (like an instant message), so people actually see/hear it. When its white it blends with any other messageup there.. which defeats the purpose of the thing.
2> BASE PROFESSION and MASTER: Add SOME type of bonus to the Novice squad leader base box. And add more bonuses to mastering the profession. Mastering it seems completely useless right now, where as otheradvanced professionsget nice bonuses to mastering it. Come on, really.. this is an advanced profession we're talking about here.. lots of point invested, give people a break and make it worth being a master of.
3> ACTIVE SKILLS: Use too much pools, fail WAY too often. If say, you're master in the tactics column, you should almost never fail Rally. How about decreasing the failure rate based on how far up the column you are? That sounds fair to me. Like, every box in tactics, you get +10 tactics, or something.. and by the time you're Tactician, your +tactics bonus won't fail nearly as often. Obviously, same would go for Leadership.
4> MOBILITY:The first +25 pts for group terrain movement are good, and help anyone in the group who doesnt have scout. But a repeat of terrain and burstagain after that is questionable for an advanced profession. Box 3 and 4 should be something more powerful for raising that far up in 1 column. I know we're asking too much here of this, but box 4 in mobility would be nice if it had some type of speed song that increased the groups foot speed completely some, even if it was only like 25%.
5> Groups in general: fix all those general group options that don't work half the time, like loot split, etc.
-Z
1) Mobility line is more or less useless
2) Squad leader XP based on personal damage
3) Specials fail too often
4) Empty novice skill box
5) /steadyaim is worthless to most groups
Squad Leader Experience Points.
Surely this was a rush job. Why is it based upon how much damage I do? Shouldn't it involve the group somehow?
ISSUE 2:
Mobility Line.
Once again, I think this was a rush job. Maybe this line should increase speed over any terrain.
ISSUE 3:
Steady Aim.
This skill will be close to useless in a few months time when all the combat professions will have enough +aim without our help. Possibly change it to a damage or attack speed modifer.
ISSUE 4:
Novice Squad Leader.
System Message? same functionality as /gsay. Add some type of bonus for Novice Squad Leaders, even if it is just +2% exp bonus for group members.
ISSUE 5:
Nothing to show scout background.
Two of our pre-requisite lines come from the scout tree. Yet as Squadleader there is nothing (are there noticable benefits from mobility) that reflects our scouting / survivalist nature. Maybe add healing bonuses while in camps while you are group leader.
Happy Tuesday, everyone! (that doesn't even sound right, does it?) What a great week of discussions we've had since last Friday! The latest news I've still heard is that the Dev's got the correspondent report and I've been getting some indirect hints that they are stirring the pot at SOE. I wasn't (and I don't think you were, either) expecting a vast amount of changes in a 7 day period, but it will all come for us in due time.
We all can agree the class needs help in certain areas, but if we didn't like it, we wouldn't be where we are today! I think many of us cling to the hope things will get done, and rightfully so. Everyone is working their butts off here to get things going and don't think SOE won't get a mouthful to chew on every week from us!
With that said, it's time to start contimplating this week's top 5 issues for the Squad Leader. This week I will re-itterate all of the vitally important things (i.e. Squad Leader XP - how it is gained, group size, the mobility line, etc.) but also bring up a new list of topics.
So without further adieu, it's your turn to step into the batter's box. I want feedback from everyone! You there - yes you, reading this - I want feedback from you too! Once again this week, think hard about what you think the top 5 issues and concerns for the Squad Leader are, and post them! Please keep it very very organized, with merely the top 5. Discussions can be taken onto the board. Any bugs in the game may also be included with your top 5 list. Please neatly write these out also. For example:
1. Issue 1
2. Issue 2
3. Issue 3
4. Issue 4
5. Issue 5
-Blah blah doesn't work
-Blah blah makes you jump in the air
...and so on. You get the idea. I look extremely forward to hearing what everyone has to say (this is one of those days I hit the refresh button over and over :smileytongue You can use things you said last weeks, bring up new one's, I don't care! Just give me your personal top 5 issues and concerns for the class.
Hope everyone is having a good week! Keep up the good work!
Vemnox
(AKA Void Vem of the Gorath server)
1- Grouping
I know you may think this borders on 'out of bounds' but it really is the biggest impact to SLs. If groups are not controlled and managed effectively by the code, then why would people form groups? And if no one forms groups, why would a squad leader ever earn XP?
We need to see the core code for groups (loot splitting and loot alerts namely) corrected. And soon.
2- Novice Worth
What exactly does a novice SL bring to a group? Now across the board our benefit is less than overwhelming, but at Novice level it is basically non-existant. I suggested directly to you a system to allow for reduced HAM costs for group members based on SL ranks, and I can detail that a bit more later. But if something liek that goes in, with a benefit being gained at Novice level, it would go a long way toward welcoming us into groups.
3- System Message
Ok, this is just weak. It shouldn't be hard to turn this into an alert box type message, or give up color controls or codes or something. Something of this nature can be very useful and SHOULD be implemented well. We can even extend this.... the code is in place for Faction Wide, Planet Wide, City/Region Wide and even Galaxy Wide messaging. We are the perfect class for the use of this. Allow us at higher levels to send a message to our faction across cities, planets and even the whole galaxy. We could announce raids and such. When we do this it should cost faction points to send the message, so it is not taken lightly, but it woudl be a great command tool.
4- Movement
It has been said too many times to count. Most warrior types take SOME scouting, so our terrain movement bonus is sort of redundant. We need to encourage faster overall ground movement. Maybe make it an active chant of sorts with a HAM cost. Yes we need to be the bards of this world, as it were.....
I can see adding the same code to Entertainers also. They would get a faster movement boost overall, like maybe 175%, but out of combat only. Ours could top at about 135%, but work during combat. And again, this would go a long way toward making the SL wanted in groups if the lowest version started at Novice level.
5- Ranks
Ranks need to be displayed in our character info. Further they need to be displayed overhead. As SLs we are VERY rank driven, and to have it be a ghostly thing with no way to see it in game is a sham. Further, we of all classes should see a discount when spending faction points to gain followers. We are meant to lead 3 stormtroopers into battle, so we shoudl gain benefits while doing so.
Now, my one biggest suggestion... a bit more fleshed out here.....
HAM cost reduction for the group.
Ok, to represent effective leadership adding to efficiency, I think it woudl be great if we reduced the overall HAM costs of our group mates. Maybe even reducing the amount of battle fatigue gained. Here is how I would see it working.
We have 4 skills paths to climb. And there are 4 things we could directly influence... action, mind, health and battle fatigue. So we make each one link to one of our skill paths, based on logical choices.
First we have Tactics.
This is getting groups tow ork together. This is effective use of force in battle. This would directly reduce the amount of battle fatigue gained by our groups.
Next we have Leadership.
Being of the more cerebral nature, this woudl reduce the usage of our groups Mind bar.
Third we have Strategy.
This would impact our groups Health bar usage. Effective strategy using less energy/health to accomplish the same task.
Last we have Mobility.
Action is the obvious choice here, and this would directly lessen our groups action pool usage.
Now how much would this impact? Each would reduce the usage (or the accumulation in the case of battle fatigue) by the same amount based on the rank attained in that particular path. The initial bonus at novice level woudl be to all 4, as would the bonus at Master.
Novice: 4% to all 4. So this is 5% HAM costs reduced, and gain Battle Fatigue 5% slower.
Rank I: +2% to the paths respective bar/value
Rank II: +2% to the paths respective bar/value
Rank III: +2% to the paths respective bar/value
Rank IV: +2% to the paths respective bar/value
MASTER: +3% to each... bringing the grand total to 15%
Theres my input, for what its worth.
First of all, lets reiterate what Vemnox has already sent in
(1) The Mobility line of the Squad Leader is insubstantial.
(2) Mind costs and fail rates of Squad Leader commands are phenomenally high.
(3) The Novice Squad Leader skillbox grants no abilities other than the non-gameplay useful /sysgroup command.
(4) /boostmorale is balancing wounds, not damage
(5) The way Squad Leader XP is calculated has no relavance to what the Squad Leader is actually doing
Knowing that SOE already has received those five, here is a new Top 5:
- Rally lock-out of other actions
- Boostmorale exploit, /retreat exploit
- The Soloing issue: A statement from SOE stating their stance on this issue is all we need to settle it once and for all, right or wrong
- /steadyaim has very little usefulness, and /volleyfire is very misleading, and often worthless as well
- The group defense modifiers are marginally noticeable in effect (regardless of they are actually doing, no one notices it)
Three threads that have a ton of useful information for the devs:
Rebuilding the Skill Tree:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=1072
New Squad Leader XP Formulas:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=974
Poll on the Soloing issue:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=squad_leader&message.id=1348
Thats all for now.
1. when i join a group and they do a /makeleader i sometimes dont get xp. not good when we kill giant kimos
2. Some type of passive skill at Novice SL. Having /sysgroup is nice but does not enhance the character in any way.
anything past 2 is grasping at straws. i have only been a SL for a few days and my major complant is the HUGE xp grind but i think that has been issued.
3. Having an easier way to post that you are looking to get a group together. SL's shouldnt have to spam a cantina to get a group together.
4. Thinking WAY ahead, squad leaders should get a space combat bonus. Like I said, grasping at straws.
5. I have found the that formula to get SL xp is stupid for a lack of better words. The point of the SL is to enhance the group. However, SL xp is based on number of people in the group * the number of damage the SL does. I think that would be fine if you had modifiers on the xp. For example, if you use rally while in combat you get a modifier for the amount of xp you get. An example of this might be as follow:
2 poeople in group you get a 1.05% xp modifier
3 - 5 people in the group you get a 1.10 xp modifier
6-9 people in the group you get a 1.25 xp modifier
10- 12 people in the group you get a 1.35 modifier
13+ people in the group you get a 1.5 xp modifier
this might have been brought up already, but it seems that you should get xp for using the skills that acutally enhances the ability of the group.
2. Possibly eliminate the Volly Fire command and replace it with a 100% effective targeting command. All players in the group would automatically select the target designated by the Squad leader. The target would be selected for them, but the players would still have to initiate their own attacks. (I use "/sysgroup OPEN FIRE!" to tell my group to shoot)
3. I think the AIM command should be changed to a passive accuracy increase (similar to the Scout creature to hit bonus). People working with a Squad Leader would have higher accuracy under pressure/comabt due to the leadership. A total to hit bonus of +20 would be nice.
That is all for now.
5. The idea of reduced HAM costs is also a good one. A squad leader makes his/her team more efficient.
1.Xp: the xp system is complete crap. If it weren't for the fact you can group pets, I'd still be working on getting one skill in this(I tend to lead small groups). A Better system is a MUST, or at least a significant reduction in the cost for skills.
2.Novice SL: Something other than the sys message. I mean, sure it's great and all, but it doesn't really motivate someone to follow you or at the least make you the leader of the group.
3.Rally lockout: As all others, I get complaints about rallying too, and the bonuses for it don't seem to be noticable at all.
4.Failure rate: Well, unlike everyone else, I think that if the SL doesn't reduce the pool cost for things, then he should at least significantly reduce the fail rate for attempting a skill for group members. I mention this because I've had people in the group who've had skills fail more often than my SL ones do, and I see this as a reasonable ability. After all, the squad leader ups the moral of it's squad and makes them more confident in their own abilities.
I can't really think of a 5th reason right now, so I'll just go with this for the moment.
Well, I've been a SL for a week longer and my issues are:
1.) SL xp has got to be changed.
2.) Novice Box is laughable. You spend how many thousands of combat xp for range IV, spend all that time getting the survival xp...why not just master scout and marksman and be a BH? You've put in as much work, just not the dedicated skill points.
3) part of above. Skills in general are laughable. Some people say we are a support class. This support is made of cardboard and bubblegum.
4) Get the Group Command working!
5) Skills in specific: Aside from the two out of ten people I group with on a very regular basis, everyone has explore III to move faster. They get this because they also like to solo and move quickly so my having Mobility III would not make them surrender explore for more SP. I don't mind taking a +25 bonus to move, that really will help. But another +25? and more burst run efficiency?
The abundance of posts on this board to the effect of "I just made SL, now what? Or I just made SL, this is it?" Should give a clue to the nature of the class currently.
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DrTall wrote:
A well conditioned, effective, yet small group should earn good xp compared to 19 blithering idots in your group.
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I agree, but I don't think giving a bigger group-size bonus would go against the above statement. Besides, a group of 19 blithering idiots isn't going to make an effective xp machine even if you give a group-size bonus. The statement I would make is:
A well conditioned, effective, yet small group should earn good xp, but an effective, yet LARGE group should earn MORE xp.
Why? Firstly, because a large group is harder to lead and make effective than a small group. Second, because most people play online games for the social aspect, and if people do better solo or in tiny groups, the social aspect of the gameis nerfed.
--Ze'ev