Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader: Fan Fest Info Dump
Page 1 of 3
Darth_Sushi
Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:27 pm
#1
The following information regarding the Squad Leader profession was obtained at the Star Wars Galaxies Fan Fest, which took place June 3-4, 2005, at the Hilton Anaheim, in Anaheim, California, and was collated from a variety of developer panel discussions, breakout sessions, and one-on-one personal conversations.
General Trends
Just to get this out of the way: we should not expect a revamp. At least not in the traditional sense of a decicated publish covering sweeping changes to our profession. They know we hurt. They don't quite know what to do about that in terms of any kind of long-term vision, at least not that they were ready to discuss. Any changes to our existing abilities will likely be leaked out over a series of three or four publishes. No dates were discussed or committed to. Evidently, the CU provides a more solid foundation for this kind of incremental tweaking. I will continue to assume that is true.
In short, Ranger and Squad leader are broken. To paraphrase, we are a low development priority and have been jointly ignored for so long because:
- They really have no idea what to do with us, and
- There aren't that many of us anyway.
I have already committed to working with the Ranger correspondent to help the devs answer both questions. I'll be asking for your help, too. Several folks pointed out that perhaps if we weren't so busted there might be more of us. Duh. I have always been of the mind that they should fix every other profession first before trying to figure out how to address our enhancement role. I maintain that position.
There was no mention of "deleting" either profession. However, they did appear to give serious consideration to a suggestion to merge Ranger and Squad Leader into some kind of hybrid "Pathfinder" profession. No further detail was given, other than that this could kill two birds with one stone by yielding an "uber-scout/group-enhancer." I'm not sure I like that idea yet, but it does answer the questions as to the obscene point cost of the Ranger profession and what to do with both of us in order to keep us viable, relevant and/or unique.
Specific Issues
The development team would like to increase the desirability of Squad Leader, including providing a greater incentive to master and reduce the efficacy or viability of dabbling.
Squad Leader is not meant to be a solo profession, and never will be. Any enhancements to Squad Leader will focus on our group enhancement role, and not on making the Squad Leader a better stand-alone combat class. We are meant to be analagous to the fantasy Bard class, in that our role is to enhance other members of a group, and when without a group to enhance we are meant to be of diminished utility.
The Pistol XP requirement is under review. I think it was confirmed that the old Squad Leader XP system was removed in order to accomodate various aspects of the CU level system. One possibility mentioned was to substitute Combat XP at one-tenth the point cost. I reitterated that I would rather see the reinstate some class-defining form of XP.
I asked if Volley Fire should override the hate/aggro system. They confirmed that if Volley Fire is causing an inappropriate amount of aggro to be pulled onto the Squad Leader then that is indeed a a bug and they will look into it.
When I asked why Form Up had been removed from use in PvP, the developers said they were not aware of any intentional nerf. I explained that it had been in the Publish 17 patch notes since it was posted to TC, and that I had inquired repeatedly to no avail on the Correspondent Forum to get any confirmation or justification for the nerf. They said they'd look into it. To clarify - Form Up should remove the Dizzy and Stun states, the effects of which are supposed to be as follows:
- Dizzy is a big defensive debuff and a mild accuracy debuff
- Stun should prevent regen of the action bar.
I have yet to confirm with any certainty that Form Up really has been removed from PvP. I was basing my assumption on the patch note - which, it turns out, may be in error. It has also been reported that perhaps Stun is not working as intended anyway.
The current 8-man cap on group size is not likely to change, for a variety of reasons ranging from balance issues, to screen real-estate, to because-I-said-so. They are working on a possible enhancement that might allow linking of several such groups into a larger cohesive unit. I made it clear that Squad Leaders would like to reserve a prominent role in any such meta-group enhancement.
One major problem that faces the Squad Leader is that the developers are hesitant to make Squad Leader a gate (or requirement) to perform any activity - i.e., if you don't have a Squad Leader you can't play. Of course, I pointed out that if we were a requirement, that might actually improve our numbers. But the point was that - as a mattter of policy - no profession can be a requirement in order for a group to play. To that end, I proposed that the issue be approached from the other end and, rather than worry about limiting play in the absence of a Squad Leader, to instead focus on the enhancement side - perhaps by making it so that joining a group led by a Squad Leader unlocks a special ability, a weapon, or some other talent or piece of gear that the player wouldn't otherwise have access to. Make people really want to join up with a Squad Leader, but by no means require it. This idea seemed to be well-received by the developer panel and the player attendees.
The idea of a Squad Leader being able to pull up an overhead map and drawing tactical instructions (or plotting waypoints) on it a-la John Madden's light pen was discussed. The developers agreed that would be neat, but they weren't immediately sure of the feasability of adding such an interface for the use or consumption of the whole group.
GCW Content That Might Impact Us
We have only seen Phase One of an intended three-phase GCW revamp. Most of that discussion belongs in the GCW forum, but I thought I'd include some highlights.
There was talk of letting Squad Leaders of some unspecified faction rank act as a pseudo recruiter who could change the combatant status of grouped factionmates in the field.
There were repeated requests for the inclusion of a factional chat channel.
The developers want to add value to faction rank. It was discussed that everybody is a Colonel - which isn't very realistic - and that getting to Colonel is way too easily bought. Future rank advancement may may be keyed to completion of faction-based quests, including potential for advancement past the rank of Colonel. I pointed out that it might be advantageous to implement some kind of a pyramid-based faction raking system in order to incrementally limit the number of available higher officer ranks on each server - i.e., in order to become a Lieutenant you would need a certain number of Sergeants reporting to you and a Colonel would need a staff of Majors, and so on. This is not directly related to the Squad Leader, but I thought it was cool anyway as it could supplant or enhance the artificial "High Command" meta-game that many servers have implemented.
They need to make better faction pets. Specifically, the AT-ST needs to be beefed up, and there needs to be a Rebel NPC equivalent. A developer suggested that an appropriate Rebel counter to the AT-ST could be a small squad of Rebel commandoes. This of course led to the cry for players, especially Squad Leaders, to call multiple faction pets at once. This perk/ability would likely be tied more to faction rank than to the Squad Leader profession, but none of it was ruled out by the panel. I did advise that we may have some input on that topic and left it at that.
Other Cool Stuff Not Directly Related To Us
The posibility of one or more neutral factions was entertained, but there will be no serious consideration of this until the GCW factions are squared away.
The motion capture for dual-wield is done. Whether they ever implement it in-game depends on allocating resources for synching up all the required animations and then deciding who gets it and with which weapons.
There will not likely be any new species introduced, as they cause unfavorable rendering lag.
We might eventually see holsters but they would be non-functional and for decorative wear.
They would like to see player titles linked to badges - i.e., if you have completed a badge quest like the "Hero of Tatooine" you might chooseto pick "Hero of Tatooine" as your displayed title. I suggsted that while they were in there fixing that interface to go ahead and allow the suppression or toggling of the display of any or all badges so that nobody can pull you up in the /examine window and immediately tell that you are a Master Bounty Hunter, that you have Proved the Perfidy of Colonel Teraud, or that you are a Crimson Phoenix Ace. It was initially expressed that badge disply was something in which to take pride, but the two-year vets and roleplayers agreed that it's just a lot of clutter that detracts from the "character bio" space.
Another suggestion I made was to allow for the possibility of quest-based character enhancement beyond level 80 (dual-elite profession mastery) that does not involve pursuit of a Jedi slot or conversion of XP to Force-Sensitive skill trees.
Without committing to anything specific, it was agreed that something like an 8-man assault skiff would be cool.
Did I mention player-piloted capital ships?
In Closing: A New Hope
I spoke at length with SOE's Lead Content Designer. In addition to being an award-winning promoter of diversity in the gaming industry, she was also a fascinating person to talk to. She plays a Squad Leader/Swordsman. This is good news for us for three reasons:
- We have a champion (or at least an advovcate) on the design team.
- She likes to pair Squad Leader with a melee profession, so that bodes well for our chances at getting the Pistol XP requirement undone.
- Maybe I should repeat it: The Content Lead plays a Squad Leader!
Anyway, that's an awful lot to chew on. There's plenty there to keep a whole team busy for quite some time. I will continue to monitor your responses and forward your concerns to the developers. When I have any news or progress to report I will let you know as soon as I am permitted. I stand by my commitment toensure that a group led by a Squad Leader has a significant tactical advantage overthe samegroup led by a Novice Chef running Teamspeak. At ease.
Message Edited by Darth_Sushi on 06-06-2005 11:39 PM
InfluenzaSWTA
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:11 am
#4
Hmm, I didn't interpret the Dev response to the proposed Ranger/SL merger to be positive... from what I remember, they said they'd never ever thought of doing that, and had a tone like it wouldn't be likely. But that's just my interpretation.
Darth_Sushi
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:23 am
#5
I didn't mean to imply that they had enthusiastically embraced the idea when it was introduced in the Ranger/Smuggler/Squad Leader breakout session, but it did seem to ignite a light bulb over their heads. After that, I did continue to hear it mentioned if not in other forums then in casualconversation throughout the weekend, almost as though somebody there was actively lobbying for it. I don't put a lot of weight in it, but it did sound like something they would be taking it under consideration, even if only briefly. There was certainly no commitment to this merger idea, and - more importantly - no serious discussion of deleting either profession.
InfluenzaSWTA wrote:
Hmm, I didn't interpret the Dev response to the proposed Ranger/SL merger to be positive... from what I remember, they said they'd never ever thought of doing that, and had a tone like it wouldn't be likely. But that's just my interpretation.
DarkHelmet-TIO
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:26 am
#6
Maybe if we were fixed there would actually BE more of us.
Sorry excuse devs.
Sorry excuse devs.
_scout_
Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:13 am
#7
regarding dual wielding....
I have read one report of the Fan Fest on this forums, that says:
a.) Dualwielding coding is to time intensive and has a low priority
and an other report that said
b.) Dual wielding coding has been started /looked on to.
And now you report that they at least have recorded and prepared the dual wielding animations.
So where's the truth ?
My guess so far is, the one person reporting that dual wielding coding has been started misunderstood, that they so far only have done the animations but came to the conclusion that coding it would be to time intensive and put it on ice to do something else (maybe FIX the game ?, good heaven beware
).
I have read one report of the Fan Fest on this forums, that says:
a.) Dualwielding coding is to time intensive and has a low priority
and an other report that said
b.) Dual wielding coding has been started /looked on to.
And now you report that they at least have recorded and prepared the dual wielding animations.
So where's the truth ?
My guess so far is, the one person reporting that dual wielding coding has been started misunderstood, that they so far only have done the animations but came to the conclusion that coding it would be to time intensive and put it on ice to do something else (maybe FIX the game ?, good heaven beware
).
Yeraze
Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:27 am
#8
Merging SL & ranger.. I don't honestly know how I'ld feel about that.
Strange as it sounds, that might be kinda kewl. I always kinda wanted a SL/Ranger, but hated the total loss of combat abilities. Maybe this is a chance to resurrect the "Fortifications" proposal
Strange as it sounds, that might be kinda kewl. I always kinda wanted a SL/Ranger, but hated the total loss of combat abilities. Maybe this is a chance to resurrect the "Fortifications" proposal
Sylow
Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:59 am
#9
Hmm, depends on how they would do it. I'd hate to have to master scout to keep the SL role...
Kharast
Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:08 am
#10
i concur about the concerns about combining SL and Ranger, yet am intrigued about the abilities of that.
i'm most excited about the pseudo-recruiter ability. having this ability at MSL would be an incentive for mastering the prof, not just dabbling. along these lines, it would be really cool if with this ability we could get simple faction based things for free. not AT-ST's or troops, but uniforms, maybe furniture, etc would have their FP cost waived. also, it would be sweet to have a choice of uniform. for instance,the black one some of the other Imperial officers wore in the movies. my last point, with this ability our SL benefits apply to factional troops but not creatures (if they dont already...i forget).
_scout_
Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:21 am
#11
I didnt thought anybody honestly would start liking that idea, thus:
Isnt that something that make you cry ?
/insert rant here /
/cry
Why are we collecting ideas, opinions, solutions, fixes, report bugs here anyway if NOBODY NOTICES THEM!
/insert more rant here/
I am totally against it.
They are not "deleting" one professions, just "merging" two brokens once into one broken one.
Honestly, not to sound to pessimistic, but realistic, by the way SOE DEVs currently operate do any of you realistically think they find a way to "merge" these two professions into one technically without screwing up both in the end? (trapping xp bug, pistol xp for a SL )
There are so many examples of bad coding (NPC rebel skins with imperial names and rebel signs) and shortsighted thinking on the DEVs side (cyberarms + rifles outranging turrets e.g.) that they arent capable of doing that.
And that only technically spoken.
Do you think these two communities will be honestly pleased with this idea, anybody remember what they did to the armor smiths or entertainers?
Reading ...
...was the worst part of all.
I dont know what we are doing here, what our correspondents are doing on the correspondent forum IF THESE IDEAS NEVER MAKE IT OT THE DEVs!
/insert even more rant here/
Everytime I come up with a good idea since they banned Auraboron, and wanted to post it, I stopped and delete it before i clicked on submit.
Why bother anyway.
- Squad leader merging with Ranger = bad idea = DEVs are lazy = dont know what to do with both = dont read the forums where a lot of ppl have a lot of good ideas.
Isnt that something that make you cry ?
/insert rant here /
/cry
Why are we collecting ideas, opinions, solutions, fixes, report bugs here anyway if NOBODY NOTICES THEM!
/insert more rant here/
They are not "deleting" one professions, just "merging" two brokens once into one broken one.
Honestly, not to sound to pessimistic, but realistic, by the way SOE DEVs currently operate do any of you realistically think they find a way to "merge" these two professions into one technically without screwing up both in the end? (trapping xp bug, pistol xp for a SL )
There are so many examples of bad coding (NPC rebel skins with imperial names and rebel signs) and shortsighted thinking on the DEVs side (cyberarms + rifles outranging turrets e.g.) that they arent capable of doing that.
And that only technically spoken.
Do you think these two communities will be honestly pleased with this idea, anybody remember what they did to the armor smiths or entertainers?
Reading ...
Darth_Sushi wrote:In short, Ranger and Squad leader are broken. To paraphrase, we are a low development priority and have been jointly ignored for so long because:
- They really have no idea what to do with us, and
- There aren't that many of us anyway.
...was the worst part of all.
I dont know what we are doing here, what our correspondents are doing on the correspondent forum IF THESE IDEAS NEVER MAKE IT OT THE DEVs!
/insert even more rant here/
Everytime I come up with a good idea since they banned Auraboron, and wanted to post it, I stopped and delete it before i clicked on submit.
Why bother anyway.
Awik
Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:52 am
#12
Squad Leader should get Dual-Wield. This will make MSL popular.....
After all, who's suited to look intimidating, if not the group leader
.
.Message Edited by Awik on 06-07-2005 01:55 PM
AlienEntity
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:28 pm
#13
*falls into line in front of Darth* So what do we do to get us growing? I think all of us regular posters are willing to do our part to get our profession better.
Message Edited by AlienEntity on 06-07-2005 04:31 PM
Page 1 of 3