Squad Leader Archive

(Reposted from another thread)

Firstly, I believe that the biggest handicap to a large team (in PvP especially) is the sheer lack of methods available to target other (enemy)players.

This is also a real pain in PvE when you have multiple levels. Im sure most of you who have lead parties through the warren have seen how bad this is. In effect you are limited to targeting enemies by clicking on them with your mouse, which depending on how you prefer to position the camera, can be very hap-hazard at best. In close quaters with pets, and multiple players this can be a difficult task, due to camera collision effects. Furthermore, in a multi level environment the "Tab" targeting method is absolutly the worst possible method of targeting, but sadly the only other alternative. Since tab targeting in effect targets the "Closest" threat, but in essence on the level below you a target exists who may be spatially your closest target, he in fact is not because LOS(line of sight) dictates that you cant fire through the floor thankfully.

Secondly in PvP, the biggest handicap is not being able to target the player that presents the most potential threat to the group without being stationary yourself... Current game mechanics make it extremely difficult to target a moving player while on the move yourself. I can not begin to count the times i have tried to target a player who has suddenly appeared from out of a wall due to server lag, and the number of times i have attempted to target a player when auto defense has had me target his pet instead...just because the pet had attacked me first. With out the ability to rapidly target any potential threat, it seems to me that any profession is extremely hampered but especially squad leader, who as by profession must be on top of his game, and be quicker on the draw than the other guy. So far we arent any quicker, luckily for me i have a fast machine.

Lastly i propse the following dynamic changes to be availible only to squad leaders as a profession, to in effect represent our professions ability to "Strike first, and strike hard", which i currently believe does not exist in any shape, way, or fashion.

1> Enable Squad Leaders to target group leaders-

A. Create a symbol visible only to a squad leader, that would appear above a group leader much like the CON starbursts, or perhaps a special symbol for a group leader on the radar.

B. Create a special ability that would enable the squad leader to study(for s short time) the fighting and pick out the group leader. This is already possible to some degree, When studying,pay attention to the spatial text box and if you see the "Form up you slimeballs" or "We're all in this together" msgs, you should definitely send a volley fire towards them, but im sure smart SL much like myself change these messages when able to do so.

2> Enable Squad Leaders to target any player or npc within eyesight without relying on distance and without the finesse neccessary to target a moving player or enemy with the mouse.

A. Although enabling some type of new system would undoubtably require somthing more complex i think the results would be worth it. I propose this: enable a "Lock on" system while not it mouselook mode. Im not sure about the rest of my fellow players, but i never use mouse look mode. Enable a character using cursor mode to hover the cursor near the intended target and by pressing a keystroke to in effect "lock on" to that target.

B. Give Squad leaders the ability to target players by using the tab key method. very simple to do i believe. We can do this with NPC's already, cant be that difficult to include players as well.

C. Color Player enemies a different color than NPC enemies on the radar screen. pretty simple and easy to do as im sure we have several colors to choose from. That way you can pick out in the middle of a full blown melee the imperial player hiding behind his stormtroopers and cowardly gurreks on you radar, just in case hes not within your current LOS.

These are only a few of the methods ive thought of for simplifying the targetting process, which i believe in turn would make SL more effective but in a small way that would help the SL be more effective at doing his job, without passively making it a better profession. Ive always held to the idiom that any man can excel as long as hes given the opportunity to employ the correct tools for the job. I think this could help improve SL's abilities to fight and defend our groups and our friends.

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Ok i was asked to repost this in a more visible place so I'm doing that. I think the current targeting system puts serious handicaps on Squad leaders and others alike. Every battle can be won within the first few seconds...i firmly believe that. A quick and lethal strike where it's most effective, causes the most fear, andhinders your enemy the most, is the most effective weapon a leader has. Currently we as leaders do not have this ability. I've had several ideas on how to make SL a more effective "leader", this is only one of many good ideas ive seen on these boards. I believe it bears further discussion...what do you think?

Just give me the tools to do my job, and ill do it the best way i know how.

Commisar Tavian Brae'Monte

--Tempest Server

Squad Leader (2/4/4/3) / Gunslinger at large(2/4/3/2) / Dabbler (CH 3/3/1/3)

"The Body is the Soul. The Soul is the Body. The two are indistinguishable. Do not fear for the destruction of either." --The Way of the Samurai

--also--

CEO & President of

T & L Mercantile INC.- a resource conglomerate

DarthMaximillian,

This is a great post, may I conscript your services to lead the charge on this front?

This concept needs some flushing out, so I hope everyone here will help DM to straighten out the details of an improved targeting system. For example, I'm not sure I like the idea of having the ability to single out players by their profession, but the ability to determine on your own who among the enemyshould get the priority is a VERY valid role for a Squad Leader. Right now this is accomplished through GroupChat and/or /sysgroup, but a new and improved targeting system for SL's is a much-needed idea.

It is my intention going forward to make myself available to Thunderheart and the devs as a representative of the ideas and concerns of the Squad Leader community. I can assure you that this service WILL be used as the developers revamp the Squad Leader profession. I hope to be as prepared as possible to answer any dev question on the specifics so I'd like to sub-delegate the organization of threads like this among the community. OmegusNeo has already done a great job of compiling the concepts of Squad Leader fortifications into a report that I have as ammunition to present to the devs whenever called upon. I'd like other people with "pet" concepts for Squad Leader to do the same. Give me a whole storehouse of ammo like this and the devs won't have any choice but to simply surrender to us and make Squad Leaders into what we should've been from the beginning.

Well im always seeking to help out Thulium so i'll do my best to really hammer out some more details, and other concrete ideas. And please, my fellow squad leaders, post your thoughts and opinions on this type of idea!!

Im sure im not the only one who thinks targeting in general needs to be better, but as Squad leaders it's imperative that we be given better and more effective methods to target our enemies, and thereby deal with them in most harsh ways. Involving our other Squad Leader abilities, with enhanced targeting abilities is also a very interesting tangent as well. Stand by for more specifics on this thread...

I would be most happy to lead the war effort in this realm Thulium! I humbly accept conscription...

Commisar Tavian Brae'Monte

--Tempest Server

Squad Leader (2/4/4/3) /Dead-Eye at large(2/4/3/2) / Dabbler (CH 3/3/1/3)

"The Body is the Soul. The Soul is the Body. The two are indistinguishable. Do not fear for the destruction of either."--The Way of the Samurai

--also--

CEO & President of

T & L Mercantile INC.- a resource conglomerate

"Cornering the market, one crafter at a time"

Wow... cant belive I missed this one. ^_^

Not sure if this is what you were thinking but let me spin this one off to ya.

Like you said about selecting specific targets based on their professions. Instead of it happening automaticaly, put in a skill like /studyfield or something like that. It would act sorta like /areatrack where you would stop and scan the field. This would make you vulnerable for the time it takes to scan the area, but if you finish you would gain the info on the enemies professions. Maybe they would have to be using a skill from that profession at the time of the /study, which throws in a kind of twist for multiprofession players.

A LOS target cycle specificaly for players would be great. So you could hit whatever key and it would only cycle through targetable players. Helps more than just us also.

First i would just like to thank my dear and close friend INSOMNIA for being with me tonight so that i could post this for you all. I've been awake for going on 57 hours now...so bear with me, as ui cant gaurnatee my typing or spelling, however my thought process are working quite well, hence the fact that i cant sleep. Sleep is irrelavent...i am a machine!!

Ok heres some Points i wanted to make to my original post. first off this has nothing to do with targetting someone based on their profession...not sure how that got started but it wasnt by me.

1.> Enabling SL to store targets in up to six predetermined memory slots.

enable SL to store up to 6 player or Npc targets in predetermined "hot keys" and by hitting the hot key at a later time it would instantly retarget the remembered player or npc that was assigned to that slot. example

Shift +1- "store target". (while targetting a player) even after the target had been cleared or that player is no longer the current target, hitting Shift + 1 again would recall that player into the current target box.

2.>Enable Squad leaders to lock on to targets while in cursor mode.

by hitting the "home" key (would be assignable inthe keymap control) while hovering the mouse cursor close to the target this would lock on to the target and place the target in the current target window. a predetermined area much like the "padding zone" web pages use when asigning rollover effects to mouse cursors when hovering over buttons or links. this "zone" should also be customizeable withiin the controls tab. perhaps youd see a box that would shrink or enlarge around the cursor, much like when adjusting the mouse dead zone, in windows control panel.

again these are some basic clarifications to the ideas i had liisted before, and im deffinitely not done with these by a long shot. Im incredibly slepy however so i must cut this post short and say Saiyonara. More to come of course. stay tuned, and let me know what you think so far, opinions and other ideas welcome!!

keep in mind these could also apply to everyone not just Squad Leaders...

Commisar Tavian Brae'Monte

--Tempest Server

Squad Leader (2/4/4/3) /Dead-Eye at large(2/4/3/2) / Dabbler (CH 3/3/1/3)

"The Body is the Soul. The Soul is the Body. The two are indistinguishable. Do not fear for the destruction of either."--The Way of the Samurai

--also--

CEO & President of

T & L Mercantile INC.- a resource conglomerate

"Cornering the market, one crafter at a time"

/salutes INSOMNIA

I like the ideas of point 1. A target queue would work pretty well in PvP and when in locations like caves where there are lots of mobs in the same location but on different levels. Plus we could throw in a "cycle through queued targets" command.

Point 2 I am confused about. Do you just mean a key that will act as the left mouse button? so when you put your mouse overa object and hit, say the spacebar, that object will then be selected?

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irott wrote:

/salutes INSOMNIA

I like the ideas of point 1. A target queue would work pretty well in PvP and when in locations like caves where there are lots of mobs in the same location but on different levels. Plus we could throw in a "cycle through queued targets" command.

Point 2 I am confused about. Do you just mean a key that will act as the left mouse button? so when you put your mouse overa object and hit, say the spacebar, that object will then be selected?

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I think he means that if you have your cursor near the target and hit the lockon key (he used home I believe) it would select the target nearest your cursor, this way you don't actually have to click on the target, which is useful for targeting things that are moving and you have a hard time clicking them..

Thats kinda what I was getting at...So it would be sorta like a auto targeting system. Not where the cursor is drawn to the target but where the target has a box or something around it and it grows larger or brighter or thicker or whaterver when the mouse gets closer then you could click or use your selection button (in his case home).

Do I have that right?

Somthing like that Irott, but acctually the "box" i was refering to wouldnt be visible, its just a region that would be coded into the game that would tell the program when the mouse was in the vicinity of a target, be that target player or npc/creature. The way i devised that you wouldknow that your mouse is close enough to lock onto the target, would be a mouse cursor flash accompanied by a change in color from the gold it normally is to say red. You could also change the cursor type to say a targeting reticle?

Hope that cleared up any confusion on that point. But yes you would have to hover the mouse cursor near the target and then hit the "Lock On" key in order to acctually bring the target up into the active target HUD.

One other thing i dont like that makes PvP so dang difficult for me. Is that Players have the same coloration as enemy faction NPCs. Red. Even their name is red. There is really no way of telling a player apart from an npc other than looks and the gear that most PvPers wear. I cant follow every player and NPCs at the same time, especially when limited by current game mechanics. Even their title and guildname turns red. It confuses me sometimes, including on the radar, all red. I think this should be changed to allow SL to differentiate between player enemies and NPC enemies. Perhaps changing color would create a easier identification and cut down on the time it takes to pick out the most dangerous target to you, the player, not his lNPCs and pets. Any ideas on this? Do any of you get frustrated by this? Has any Imperial ever dressed in ST armor, brought out st's and confused you for the first couple of critical seconds in the fight? I know ive used this tactic before, and the rebel SL on the receiving end of my blaster told me after the fight he had a hard time telling me apart from my henchmen, this was also before the CH nerf that disallowed more than one factional soldier at once, so it may be eisier now, if for the wrong reasons imho.

Commisar Tavian Brae'Monte

--Tempest Server

Squad Leader (2/4/4/3) /Dead-Eye at large(2/4/3/2) / Dabbler (CH 3/3/1/3)

"The Body is the Soul. The Soul is the Body. The two are indistinguishable. Do not fear for the destruction of either."--The Way of the Samurai

--also--

CEO & President of

T & L Mercantile INC.- a resource conglomerate

"Cornering the market, one crafter at a time"