Squad Leader Archive

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Swg-Addict wrote:

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KJFett3 wrote:

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ipp350 wrote:
Clicky

Figured I'd post this since so many people seem to think the high numbers are coming off low level chars. This was 1 shot to a level 80 finished template jedi (master healer/powers enhancer 4004) Now who can honestly tell me that this is balanced?

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A MP/MH/E4004 has no defense at all. An artisan with BE clothes has better defense.

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Forgive me, i dont want to troll your postings, but your informations are incorrect.

I will explain:

1. BE clothes are broken in this, they do nothing atm.

That could be argued. Many of those that feel it doesnt work do not understand how it is to work to begin with. Many of us that do know seem to find no problem with it and use it everyday.

2. What Unlockskills has this Jedi ? There IS defense already

Ohhh..yeah, my bad. That +12 makes such a huge diff on that +20 when the guy shooting you has +300 accuracy.

3. Defense is only marginal lowering the pure damage, the "trick" is, that a higher defense makes your foe more often MISSING.

That is more incorrect than correct. In fact, defense has less of an impact on how often or not they hit, and more to do with how hard or soft they hit. If their accuracy is on par with your defense, they will hit for the middle of their wpn range...a 500-1000 rifle will hit in the 750ish range most often. If you have more defense...like Faura and thus 750 defense to their 200 accuracy, their weapon will hit at the min dmg of 500. If they have more accuracy...like a tifleman with 300+ 200 from aim for +500 and they shoot a guy with 40 defense...their rifle will hit near the cap of 1K. All of these dmgs are before the specials mod...so lets say the special is 4X. The first would result in a hit of 3000...looks familar doesn't it. The second one would be 2000...which looks more like what we normally see. The last one...the one we see in the pic would be....4000...now look at the picture again...how much dmg did the jedi get hit for? That's right!!!! Just over 4K...exactly as I expected and show in these figures above. All three are just as likely to hit. In addition, if your accuracy is "way" over the defense of the opponent, you see a bonus to the dmg and actually go over your weapon's max stat.

Example:
Jedi:
251 melee defense (when you wield a saber, melee def. is your friend, even against ranged, see "Def.mod bug thread") yeah..already calculated that in.

Saber 600-700 (min max)
180 Elem.damage
Improved headhit
No AB
No KD

Target:
Level 80 Player
6.5K energy resist armor
240 defense

Damage done: 496

Same results with a defense of ZERO: 506 zero what? defense? doubt it..you are also looking at a weapon (LS) with very little range in Min and Max. The true difference is seen in wepaons with large ranges like ALRs. Your result also doesn't tell us what special was used for what dmg multiplier etc. Nor does it give us one very important piece of the puzzle..the accuracy. You'll notice that accuracy was very important in my paragraph describing what it all is.


10 pts. - what we are talking about ?
That the SL enhanced rifleman in the above test wont hit for 3235, he will "only" hit for 3225 ?

I think we both agree that this is nonsense to discuss.

If you want some testings, send me a PM here - i have the needed toons on your server.

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Its all already been tested and even confirmed by devs here on the forums. It doesn't work the way it used to pre-curb. You are still thinking of it in pre-curb terms.

TO put this in the most basic terms....

A jedi with 90 defense gets hit for 300 dmg from a wookiee with 200 accuracy. The wookiee hits 4 out of 5 times.

The same jedi turns Adv Aura on and now is only hit for 200 dmg from the same wookiee. The wookiee still hits for 4 out of 5 times, but does a total of 400 dmg less in the same period.

So..if you are testing the BE clothing for the number of shots to drop and the foe to miss more..then yes it is not working...But..if you are testing it for dmg changes as it is intended.....then you do see a diff. Tested.

Morning

Im too lazy to quote, but you said somewhere, my example didnt show what special the Jedi used, it IS stated (3rd line or so: Improved headhit).

THe pic of the big gun....LMAO, yeah, i remember this one, i had some similar myself ;P

It was the kick to take it out hunting, but also dont forget, that it wasnt much of a "pain" in PvP (your screenie is PvE) where all the high armor, PSG and PvP reduction took place.

And you "normally" attacked MIND pre-CU, which was at the BEST (human 1200, ent. buff) like 2.5 K, then u boosted it with some food etc.

I had 3027 buffs (Janta) on my doc, was 800 unbuffed (human, mitigated all to mind). Some spices, canape and vercupti and powerboost (TKM), and you ran around called the "6K HAM bomb"...LOL, was cool.

But since mind wasnt healable...you still died
I always disliked the 800/tic mindpoison (still got it somewhere, rancor bile, vernom etc.)

I have a pack called "Rhadamants leftovers", guess whats in there...


Back to the very issue:
I NEVER saw a 3K+ single shot pre-CU in PvP, never.



For this whole defense/accuracy thingie....:
We did gazillions of testings, COR ALE, Deutonium (SP?), Aura up, Aura down, all the food up and down....i tell you what: Its more borked then intended.
Even with a HIGHER offense then the Jedi has in defense, you still miss a lot. WHY ?

We figured out that...uugh..what was it...i think all 100 pts. defense is equi to 9 or 10 pts. more damage or so.

THis btw, is easy to re-check with the damage calculator, its stating exactly the same. You might want to test it on yourself.

Yep, you are absolutely right, that weps with a BIG min/max difference are not the same like a saber (close range).

Many still need to understand, that any monster 2 levels higher then you is pushing your wep to minimum, also (and always) EVERY PvP action is doing the same.

It makes me smile when people tell me their "DPS" (what the he....this value is a gapfiller, nothing more). The PvP relevant value is (besides SAC) min. damage.
Even speed isnt important, cuz a series of special wont kill your foe (heals) but your action (and therefore: YOU FINALLY).

I just say, we had no 3.5K single shots in PvP pre-CU, but we have it NOW: Post P24. And that SHOULDNT be...

Like said, i have SL, Jedi, Rifles, Docs on your server, feel free...(honestly and friendly meant, its really interessting to do all this testings, it was "enlightening" many of us - we figured out as one of the firsts, that the defense mods are "swapped").

Message Edited by Swg-Addict on 10-24-2005 04:59 PM

Hitting for 3k+ damage is all fine and dandy but how often can you do it?

Someone needs to test this properly:
* Use SL buffs and sniper shot.
* Repeat the test at least 10 times in a row.
* Out of those times how many times will you hit for 3k+ damage?

In a "real" fight:
* Rifleman/SL can fire from 60+m away (sometimes more with a ranged arm)
* If you're that far away chances are you won't be an immediate target.
* If you use tactics you could easily incap people in one shot.
* If you get in a Jedi's face as a Rifleman/SL you derserve a Light Saber enima.

The SL benefits are quite nice in a group now. Is it unbalanced? Well that is still up for debate IMHO. I would like to see someone test this multiple times in a row. If you can only hit for 3k+ damage once or twice out of 10 shots it's really not that imbalanced.

KJFett, and about 3 or 4 people total on a server would have a gun or powerhammer that powerful, they weren't as common as a capped rifle is to get now in the CU. I know one rifleman/BH in GOON on Lowca that had a 5K dmg T21 and it was super scary, but not everyone had one so I don't think the argument really matters.

Last night in Theed PVP there were at least 2 or 3 rifleman proned in the distance with SL buffs doing pot shots on the random Jedi that's in combat, some of the Jedi took a crapload of damage from the snipershots and headshots. Don't deny that it's going to happen.

Message Edited by KJFett3 on 10-24-2005 11:29 AM

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KJFett3 wrote:

hehe..too early for me and didn't see hte head shot.

as for the pic..the top right pic shows it used in PVP. Notice the long list of incaps one after the other?

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Yeah...after the CMs got them down..hehehe, i see "you cannot strafe2 while dead" tho

Ok bud, honestly, i just saw something very "odd"
The rifle shows "This item will not decay from use or death" (or so), which is the ADK!!! note.

How come there is an ADKnote in a pre-CU weapon-exam window ?!?!?

You see me baffled

The "amor piercing: heavy" is pre-Cu, the damage stats are pre-CU, the skillmods etc..all pre-cu, but how come there is the ADK note in the screen ?

I try to remember pre-CU...think think think ... no, there wasnt anything preventing a wep from decay...wasnt....nope....


Edit:
In the right lower i see an ithorian "nose", but the rest of the graphics there are also pre-CU.

Is this kind of a photoshop collage or so ?

Message Edited by Swg-Addict on 10-24-2005 07:49 PM

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Swg-Addict wrote:

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KJFett3 wrote:

hehe..too early for me and didn't see hte head shot.

as for the pic..the top right pic shows it used in PVP. Notice the long list of incaps one after the other?

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Yeah...after the CMs got them down..hehehe, i see "you cannot strafe2 while dead" tho

Ok bud, honestly, i just saw something very "odd"
The rifle shows "This item will not decay from use or death" (or so), which is the ADK!!! note.

How come there is an ADKnote in a pre-CU weapon-exam window ?!?!?

You see me baffled

The "amor piercing: heavy" is pre-Cu, the damage stats are pre-CU, the skillmods etc..all pre-cu, but how come there is the ADK note in the screen ?

I try to remember pre-CU...think think think ... no, there wasnt anything preventing a wep from decay...wasnt....nope....

Message Edited by Swg-Addict on 10-24-2005 07:45 PM

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ADK was pre-CU. My Weaponsmith / Swordman guildmate had a full set of ADK armor and 2 weapons. CU pissed him off, because of the CL of a single elite vs double elite.

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Swg-Addict wrote:

Yeah...after the CMs got them down..hehehe, i see "you cannot strafe2 while dead" tho

Ok bud, honestly, i just saw something very "odd"
The rifle shows "This item will not decay from use or death" (or so), which is the ADK!!! note.

How come there is an ADKnote in a pre-CU weapon-exam window ?!?!?

You see me baffled

The "amor piercing: heavy" is pre-Cu, the damage stats are pre-CU, the skillmods etc..all pre-cu, but how come there is the ADK note in the screen ?

I try to remember pre-CU...think think think ... no, there wasnt anything preventing a wep from decay...wasnt....nope....


Edit:
In the right lower i see an ithorian "nose", but the rest of the graphics there are also pre-CU.

Is this kind of a photoshop collage or so ?

Message Edited by Swg-Addict on 10-24-2005 07:49 PM

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HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah I don't remember exactly when ADKs were introduced, but I think sometimes after Christmas 2004, I remember ADK'ing my 800+ dmg powerhammer and 300 dmg vibroknuckler back then (and at one time ADK'ing a puped weapon gave a permanent powerup without it ever expiring).

DOH !!!

I get old...
ADK was pre-CU ?

i would have sworn there was no ADk b4 CU went live...ok, off to the almshouse