Squad Leader Archive

Am I satisfied wwith the changes: NO!

The proposed changes will hurt SL more than they will benefit. More than enough threads out there to suggest better ways to improve SL, but I would be satisfied if current abbilities were FIXED. If the command and control direction is desired by Devs, please don't allow us to Force commands on players aloow us to command and the squad to follow the commands resulting in a benefit.

I like the new abilites and think that if properly used and accepted by the group that they will havea great positive effect onthe game.

Master Squad Leader/Master Ranger

Psquire, your long posts are putting me to work...

The second measurement I am talking about is a reevaluation of these new skills in light of the feedback we have provided them. Very specific examples of how you can see these abilities working for you or against you provide the most valuable feedback for them. They can maximize the upside and minimize the downside of these abilities based upon our input and their much superior knowledge of how the game functions.

These suggested changes will have a significantimpact on the group playing experience which is the single most important element in MMORG's IMO. Once these changes get put into the coding queue, its very difficult to change them without significant rework which takes time and money. They had better be 100% certain these changes are what they have in mind or it could seriously kill this game.

hehe, sorry, long weekend slide has kicked in, not much to do round here lately...

Well put, well put. I agree they better **edit** well be sure these abilities fit and thatall peepswill have [more?] fun with them in place (I order you to have FUN!), they run the risk of wrecking the game for a lot of people if these are poorly implemented or detrimental. Unfortunately, the only feedback we can provide at this time is pure speculation and conjecture onthat relatively vauge bulletpoint list of how we think these will work in practice. But even that is with only alimited understanding of the dev vision for SL (the only vision that really matters in the end). What would be insanely helpful is if a dev would open a thread here or actually respond to our corespondant with some info... but, I'm not holding my breath

And I totallyagree with Refrowe above these two points...

"We are not in control of what happens to this profession, nor were we ever."

and

"I'm not turning cartwheels or anything, but compared to where the Squad Leader stands today, it's tough to say it's not an improvement. Once these changes are implemented and we can evaluate the revamped profession, then and only then do I believe it's fair to issue our complaint."

Ok, I'll be quiet now (for a little while ) Everyone have a nice weekend!

Thanks,

-Psquire, trying to be conci...concie...con...trying not to write so much when a lot fewer words would do much better in some instances

I read a bit fast thru the skills and I think SL shouldn't be a GROUP Controler but rather a GROUP supporter.

No one likes to be controled THAT much.

Instead I suggest boost defense and add mind regen +++.

And for crying out loud if rally fails dont take off the MIND jezzus.

just my 2 cents.

Yriah

I think that the proposed changes do not address the class properly. I am glad they are giving thought to the matter, but they need to re-think their idea of squad leader.

I would like to go on record as being primarily opposed to these new abilities. While I think several would have a nice streamling effect on groups I agree with those who think most of these proposed abilities will turn us into Player Handlers. I mainly group with my PA all of whom know what thier responsibilities are. I would rarely / never use most of these proposed abilities. What is the point of having abilities I won't be using? While normally I would agree with waitinguntil changes hit the TC, in this case, just from the descriptions I can see the direction the abilities proposed would take Squad Leaders and I am not interested in traveling that road.

Strongly opposed with the new changes done for the SL.

I wouldnt mind a few abilities like forced march and smoke em if you got em.

But turning players into my pets arent what I started SL for, I much rather players in my group makes mistakes and learn from it rather than treating them like my pets and them not learning anything from the game.

I cannot measure the effect that these changes will have on our profession until they are implemented.

I do not believe a protest is in order. We are not in control of what happens to this profession, nor were we ever. We can make suggestions all day long, but in the end we hold no authority over the decisions.

The proposal was the first step in completing an unfinished profession (or fixing a broken one, depending on how you look at it.) and I think it represents progress. I'm not turning cartwheels or anything, but compared to where the Squad Leader stands today, it's tough to say it's not an improvement. Once these changes are implemented and we can evaluate the revamped profession, then and only then do I believe it's fair to issue our complaint.

Stumpfrowe of Kettemoor

Shuyunh,

Absolutely. A very good rule in theory and in practice.

But measure what here? Popular opinion?

Just kidding. But in all serious, we, the SL community, do not yet have enough info to even measure once. We've barely got enough info to eyeball. We don't know the stats on the stances (admittedly a small part of the whole, but a very important one). We don't know what's to become of our existing abilities and bonuses.

Only the developers [hopefully] haveenough data to accurately measure the impact these changes will have. They have statistics on weapon damage and speed output, and how defensive attribs are working (or not working). They can run test cases of how these changes will impact small, med, large groups. I believe they have all the numbers.

What they do with those numbers remains to be seen. If these new skills turn out not to be of any redeeming value (I don't see myself ever using in formation, but perhaps others will), and perhaps even detrimental (ala uber griefing), then they in fact have not measured twice. And that will probably snap the back of this already broken prefssion in two. I hope they realize this and that there's a lot riding on getting these working, and working well.

And sure, I'd love to see "anytime mind damage healing", and Overt master squad leaders can let others declare overt, and /painttarget, and a /nexttarget (reorder everyone in the group's tab cycleorder), and all the other great ideas listed. But, the fact of the matter is we havea very narrowly focused view on what we want and think we need as squad leaders.We lack a clearer view of the bigger picture and how we fit in the balance of things. Perhaps mind damage was designed fromthe startto be the limiting factor in battles and the lack of mind dmg healing is designed to prevent battles from waging indefinitely. Who knows? I sure don't. Point being while we may want such a skill to differentiate ourselves, it might not be in the best interest of the game itself.

I'm not going to say relax, we're in good hands here, clearly mistakes have been made, gaping holes left wide open. I'm just saying let's think about these skills and see what they can do once they make it to TC.

Let me just close with....

"You can't always get what you want You can't always get what you want But
if you try sometimes well you just might find You get what you need"

Thanks,

-Psquire

Lol, Aden_Nak , you give me a good laugh every time! =)

Thanks for the responses so far everyone. This has got to be the most reliable community for well thought-out responses.

We waited.

We waited for SOE to give us a response to our issues. The started issuing responses and we waited. Two weeks passed before something was posted about it on the general boards. What was posted is very controversial, and not even a response to our issues.

I for one do not think we should wait again. We have seen the proposal. Whether we have seen the complete form or not does not matter.Most of usare very concerned. We cannot afford to wait again to be heard. If we are heard, and positive changes go into effect, and delay a viable SL rework then I am all for it. If the current proposal goes to TC for bug testing we are likely to wait three months before anything new is done. Now is our window, between release and player cities and mounts, to get them to accomplish something. Lets not squander it.

The planned skill set is a huge step forward for the class bringing it closer to its real life role model. This isn'tEQ or DAoCwhere Squad Leaders are Bard like class of this game using spell like abilities to buff the group like it tries to be now.