Squad Leader Archive

If it's solely based on the damage a group does, doesn't this open an exploit where a "low level" SL leads an "uber" team and racks up crazy amounts of XP? I think SL XP needs to be closely linked to the leader. Maybe a small amount of SL XP comes from the group damage and a majority comes from the SL actions.

I have a slightly intresting response but i dunno what you may think about it...

The problem is that whatever method you use to get xp he can always party with a high level group and slay monsters. thats why they based it on damage. But what if for some reason you wouldn't want a low level in your group or something? I'm not entirely sure how you would compare damage but they obviously have a way to compare relative strength with characters vs mobs (since con works and you can get less xp from masking scent on some creatures etc). What if when a squad leader leads a group and he is incredibly (i mean by enough = exploiting) not pracitcal to fight this mob (in a way that would be obvious he is just leeching) he would actually LOWER the group xp. "Your squad leader has failed in his attempt tyou lead you successfully. You reciee only (X) XP."

If xp seems a little extreme, what if his skills had a percent chance of working but also a percent chance of failing (and making the team worse off). For instance. The stronger the foe you fight, the higher your chance of a passive mod failing (he leads poorly vs such tough creatures) and instead of say a +5 bonus to melee they get a -5. This would promote squad leaders to fight comparable mobs regardless of who is in the group. So lets examine some possibilities:

H = High level M = Medium level (just right) L = Low level (compared to mob)

L Squad Leader w/ H Team = Team either fights mobs that work for him (which gives them less xp) or they fight harder mobs (which he gives them a penalty on, he wouldn't be too successfull leading against tough mobs)

H Squad Leader w/ L Team = He could fight really easy mobs and increase the teams abilities so in this circumstance he would be highly usefull (which isn't actually too bad at al).

M Squad Leader w/ M Team = Perfect (ideal) situation where they fight comparable mobs and get their normal bonus. Everyone would get regular xp and he would get xp based on the group's efforts.

Mind you this is based off the idea that his xp is based on group effort (some forumal based on group xp no doubt).

Hmm... good points.

OK, internally, everyone in the game has a "level." Its a simple representation of your combat skill. All of the creatures and NPCs in the game are level-based.

So here's how a simple revision to SL XP would go:

(Damage Done By Group) * (Squad Leader Level / Group's Average Level) * (1.0 + Bonus For Using Specials)

Obviously this number would then need to be reduced by some factor to make it in-line with how fast the devs want us advancing.

Note, the Bonus For Using Specials might work like flourishes in a way... using some specials adds some bonus XP.

The key factor in that formula is the ratio of SL's Level to his Group's Average Level.

I'm sure someone will find a flaw with this formula and we'll refine this idea more! Lets hear it!

The current system is exploitable too though, if I understand it correctly at least. Get a 20 person group of artisans who are crafting. Go out into the countryside and 1-shot and 2-shot white cons. Rake in the squadleader exp. Even if the group has to be in range of the fight... there's nothing that says the group has to actually engage the target from what I've read here. The crafters could just go afk and macro-sample while the SL plinks critters nearby. (I haven't made SL yet, I'm working on it ^^ but I don't power-grind so it may be a while). So "soloing as a group leader" would currently be the cheap and easy way of grinding SL exp.

Personally I think it would be appropriate if SL exp were calculated based on the2times the average level of a group, the damage dealt by the group, and the level of the mob the group kills. This would reflect the leadership aspect of squad leader and the idea that a squad leader should be leading teams to successfully fight things higher level than they are individually, while being balanced to mitigate against the most obvious abuses. You'd get minimal SL exp for killing things that aren't higher level than you, and you'd get less exp for killing the samething with a stronger group as compared to a weaker one.

There is a limited range on getting the XP. Havnt worked it out yet, but if half your squad is out of this range then your SL XP is dropped by however many people are still in your area. Howver, there was one time when I was grouped with my wife and she got a shuttle to another part of the planet and I decided to do a few solo missions where I was and for anything I killed that was white or above I recieved SL XP. NO idea how this happened but she was 12000m away from me, and other times I have had people 200m away and they didnt count as being in the group.

I find the whole idea that a squad leader must do damage to the creatures to recieve SL XP. A squad leader should be coordinating, planning and watching the flow of the battle.Using yourown firepower to a fight should not be needed to recieve the XP.

My idea was take the average member in the group ( say its 12 ) and then compare it to the creature killed ( say its a level 20 creature ). If the creature yields 500 combat XP, then the SL would get the creatures level - The sqds average level = 8. Take the 8 and multiply it by the squad leaders level. This encourages the squad to take on higer level creatures. Now to encourage largers groups, but at the same time not zerg fest 20 person groups then you could give a cap on the XP per kill based on the people in the squad. something like 200 for 2 people, 400 for 3 people, 600 for 4 people etc etc.

Based on the above example with a squad of 10, A level 15 squad leader would gain 8 x 12 would gain 96. This isnt much but a level 20 creature to level 15 SL isnt much either. If we take it upto a level 30 creature he would get 15 x23 = 345. This too sounds under average to what it is now. My 7 man group killing ferocious tortons was yielding me 800-1200 SL xp a kill. So maybe this system probably needs a little tweaking to boost the amount recieved, perhaps a bonus from the amount of damage you dealt. This would make shooting a bonus and SL not needing to shoot to actually earn his XP.

I like the idea of these level analyzing equations but it seems they have avoided this style of experience thus far. So if this ends up being too complex to work out I have a simpler suggestion:

XP is primarily based on using your skills, but, much like flourishes and entertainment healing XP, only when it actually has an effect. So for Volley, you get a percentage XP based on the how much dmg done by those Vollying. For formup you get XP per person that you heal. For system message, you get 1000 xp for each letter you type. You get the point.

Now, to prevent from abusing huge groups andhigherlevel groups, just cap off (or greatly decay)the amount of XP you can receiveeach time you use a skill. This cap should increaseas the SL advances.

To prevent SL teaming up with one uber fighter and going up just as fast as a squad leader commanding8 equal level fighters, have the percent of XP also based on number of people. For example, ifvolley gives 5% of damage in XPdone with a 2 person group, it could give 10% when in a group of 4. OR the cap could actually changebased on the number of people in the group. The highest cap would be at an optimal group size, say maybe 10 people. So a group of 2 people and a group of 20 people would both have smaller caps than the group of 10.

What this will do is establish an optimal group size/strength for the squad leader to work with.

Spamming your skills wouldnt be too much of an issue since you will only be rewarded based on how useful they were and since they take a lot from your pools, you will have to be selective about when you use them to get the optimal experience. Volley on a 100 hp creature would waste a lot of your pools without yeilding much xp.

It would take some tweaking to figure out how much XP per skill and what the caps should be, but it would be fairly straight forward once decided.

I love the running jokes about /sysgroup...

Thats too funny.

Good ideas!

Thisis probablybe too far of a stretch at this point in the game,but I think it could also be cool if Squad Leaders could specialize in different group sizes. Maybe each branch could have modifiers that increase the XP you receive at certain group sizes. For example, the 1st branch has modifiers that give you themore XP in a 5-10 person group, the next branch gives you more XP in a 11-15 person group, etc.

I dont know that this would make sense the way the branches are setup right now, but it would be kinda cool to have some squad leaders thatwill seek out small groups to lead, and some that will seek out large groups to lead.

I think the Census thread demonstrates quite well that none of us have ever led a group *effectively* that was bigger than 15. Most of us feel that about 12 people is all you can organize well. After that it just becomes a zergfest with a mind of its own.

And most of us prefer to run groups around 8 people...

However the XP system changes, PLEASE Volatris, when you are elected, push as hard as you can to change the current system. It is the stupid thing I have ever heard that using your profession skillswill definitely take away from the amount of experience you get in that profession. As it stands now, it really seems like you would clearlygo up faster as a squad leader if you avoid wasting time on ever using SL skills and spending that time killing.

Ayup.

I think we should push for the quick, 15 minute fixes like %TT working in /sysgroup, having a quick skill mod in the Novice box and a few other things... and while the developers start implementing the quick easy stuff and push it out, we can have some more huge discussions about how to design our XP system, and make that the first real change we see. I hope to see a fix to SL XP on the Live servers in under a month...

Agreed with xAdam... it really seems to me like the easiest way to grind out SL exp would be to team with a few crafter friends while they are harvesting and plink the small game near them. You do all the damage, so you get all the exp. They just fill the holes in your team.

Has anyone in beta as a SL fought in a Alliance vs Imperial Battle with PCs?

Does it make a difference?