Squad Leader Archive
Thread: SOE Helios Brainstorming on Jedi in the GCW
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
I did have the pleasure a little over a month or two ago of participating in a PvP base assault in which the effectiveness of the Jedi on both sides was highly limited. Said base was on a plateau, with rifleman and turrets defenders, and the offensive force placed a pve base at the bottom of the cliff as a rally point. In order to attempt to fire at the turrets, you placed yourself at risk from the defending turrents and rifle / carbine users, not to mention the minefields placed, which was enough to give Jedi pause. This didn't give defending Jedi an advantage either, because going too close to the edge of the cliff put you at risk of fire from the army marshalled at the bottom. I don't even know how long it took for the assault army to get complete control of the cliffside, much less how long to get an operating turrent on the plateau, but the entire battle lasted well over the vuln time of the base. Even at that point, it was a ranged war with a no man's land killing field constantly trying to drive the defenders into the base. This is not to say the Jedi had nothing to do, for the defending Jedi were trying to sneak around to get behind enimy lines while offensive Jedi were out trying to hunt them down.
I wanted to pick this paragraph out and make a point for EVERYONE TO READ IT SEVERAL TIMES! 
Turrets and bases have been very common on the Radiant server, and it has put a huge crunch on when jedi are used and how they are used. The men with the ranged weapons control and run the battles once this happens, and the battles are truely ones right from Star Wars.
and for those that dont think turrets belong...this is what I have to say.
!
Sylow wrote:
Turrets and bases have been very common on the Radiant server, and it has put a huge crunch on when jedi are used and how they are used. The men with the ranged weapons control and run the battles once this happens, and the battles are truely ones right from Star Wars.
The current problem of turrets are the ranged arms. The described situation above with hilltop and everything sounds very nice but is not "the normal" condition. Such places are hard to find, some people lately started to experiment with "tactical houses", which means that bases should be placed within a cluster of houses, allowing no attack on the turrets from more than 60 meters or so. (Perhaps a bit more, but better playing it save.)
Thus they currently are of very limited use on a PvE base which supposedly is not defended by players. Though, these bases are often used as turret emplacements in PvP, they work very fine there when you manage to pull the enemy into turret range. (Though, PvE bases for PvP, PvP bases for what?)
) and yeah....my main is a MSL, and my alt is a Commando/smuggler....my jedi is the only thing I do that isn't in a busted profession. 
They are not a problem though. 80m ranged arms are howyou take the turrets out, but any ranged under a turret's protection should be able to move in and attack those ranged players.
[...]
If they can shoot a turret..even with ranged arms, they can be shot at as well. Regardless, a turret will keep jedi from swarming the lines. They will get more of the jedi to play their ranged alts as well. Many jedi want to be on the front lines...and if turrets are keeping jedi in check, then ranged is where the action is, and where more jedi will move to.
As for using houses to block range..I think that isa bad idea. You can not block every angle to a turret. They will continue to kill them. Why anyone would care about a turret getting killed on a solitary PVE base is beyond me though. We drop PVE bases to be content to the opposing faction, not for us. That being the case, it is their option how they chose to destroy it as it is their content. Now, the times to worry about turrets getting hit is when you drop one as an ancor to fall back on when in a PVP battle assaulting an SF base.
If it's a good or bad idea, i don't know. The idea was born when the Empire just started to hit back on Infinity after a long time of having about no base at all. The idea simply is to have some real fortifications which stand up for a fight, instead of just being there to be shredded in no time. Since the Empire now since a few weeks manages to actually hold Rori, i guess the issue is less pressing, finally there's a place to buy factional stuff at acceptable rates.
How this will turn out in the end i don't know, i only know that it's in discussion with some people, but i personally think that making an attack more of a challenge doesn't hurt. [I remember blowing a turret-defended base with combat medics and jedi being very busy while the ranged took the heat. That was much more fun than the "stand back and the cyberarm-dudes kill the turrets" procedure... ]
My main issue is with all this is that he was talking about jedi and leading. Which sounds like what the jedi did in Ep2 and 3 with the armies. That worries me because....well .....what are we supposed to be then?
Sylow wrote:
They are not a problem though. 80m ranged arms are howyou take the turrets out, but any ranged under a turret's protection should be able to move in and attack those ranged players.
[...]
If they can shoot a turret..even with ranged arms, they can be shot at as well. Regardless, a turret will keep jedi from swarming the lines. They will get more of the jedi to play their ranged alts as well. Many jedi want to be on the front lines...and if turrets are keeping jedi in check, then ranged is where the action is, and where more jedi will move to.
As soon as you show me how to engage those ranged-arms combatants (not SF) who pick off the turrets on the combatant (not SF) bases, i can agree with your point. Untill then, the ranged arms are a problem.
Drop another turret right on them. Ther are advantages to turrets, and disadvantages. I wont deny that. You just have to work with it and deal with them in a fashion that they are not an issue any longer.
As for using houses to block range..I think that isa bad idea. You can not block every angle to a turret. They will continue to kill them. Why anyone would care about a turret getting killed on a solitary PVE base is beyond me though. We drop PVE bases to be content to the opposing faction, not for us. That being the case, it is their option how they chose to destroy it as it is their content. Now, the times to worry about turrets getting hit is when you drop one as an ancor to fall back on when in a PVP battle assaulting an SF base.
If it's a good or bad idea, i don't know. The idea was born when the Empire just started to hit back on Infinity after a long time of having about no base at all. The idea simply is to have some real fortifications which stand up for a fight, instead of just being there to be shredded in no time. Since the Empire now since a few weeks manages to actually hold Rori, i guess the issue is less pressing, finally there's a place to buy factional stuff at acceptable rates.
How this will turn out in the end i don't know, i only know that it's in discussion with some people, but i personally think that making an attack more of a challenge doesn't hurt. [I remember blowing a turret-defended base with combat medics and jedi being very busy while the ranged took the heat. That was much more fun than the "stand back and the cyberarm-dudes kill the turrets" procedure... ]
KJFett3 wrote:
My main issue is with all this is that he was talking about jedi and leading. Which sounds like what the jedi did in Ep2 and 3 with the armies. That worries me because....well .....what are we supposed to be then?
Well, that wasn't what I was getting at.. Although it is an interesting thought that hadn't really occured to me before :-(
And before this devolves into a flame war, I'm not saying to Nerf Jedi.. Jedi are supposed to be all powerful, much more powerful than they are now. They just aren't supposed to be here at all! I'm a purist: Vader, Yoda, Luke.. That's it. Now, what's done is done and can't (won't) be undone, so we have to live with it.
I guess my point was that when the only thing that can really fight a Jedi is another Jedi, then what purpose does anything else serve? Sure, I could get a group together and takedown a Jedi. But is that our purpose? I thought we were supposed to be hunting and killing Imperials and Bases, not a single Jedi. Are we supposed to be a "Group" Bounty Hunter, Taking Jedi Missions from the terminals and forming a group to go kill them? I know a few SL's that made decent money doing just that before the BH/Jedi Tef changes, although I never approved of it. I certainly hope the answer is no...
Message Edited by Yeraze on 08-09-2005 12:14 PM