Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Something to consider for our revamp
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Yog-Soth
Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:15 am
#14
I disagree , give me Human-Enginuity over a pre-defined macro anyday.
However, as a squadleader and medic, in combat yes i am VERY BUSY. And it's not unusual for me to disengage a target to do wot needs done; but /formup /rally and wot not doesn't really require to disengage combat to use them. Sure you might be dizzy a couple seconds longer than you like , but i will get to you!!
There is nothing more annoying then someone screaming they need healed , but they won't stop moving long enough to stay in range.
ANyways back to the topic
Rarrot
Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:28 pm
#15
The problem with bots is easy enough to fix. Cap the range at which our specials work and put a timer on them long enough to make it useless unless you've actually got someone watching the battle & activating the specials as needed (ie. retreat once every 5 minutes).
Anyways, I'm just suggesting that we need to keep our new ideas to things that don't affect skill mods until we know what's safe. A fort that blocks line of sight is fine, but something that increases defense for the group isn't. New skills are okay, but nothing that stacks with anything else until we know exactly what effects it would have when combined with varying levels of that skill already present in the game.
This isn't a matter of whether or not Squad Leader becomes useful, it's a matter of whether or not we'll need to be nerfed because of yet another poorly-designed equation that lets people abuse our skills (and even if we did't get nerfed, would we really want to see squad leader become a tool used to exploit instead of a profession people play because they want to?). It doesn't really matter how strong a boost someone can get from things like food and skill tapes because the caps still apply to those, but since the caps don't apply to our abilities, we can only have small bonuses. It's a trade-off we have to make, unless we're willing to give up being able to improve upon the abilities of the players that have stacked every ability they possibly could already.
Anyways, I'm just suggesting that we need to keep our new ideas to things that don't affect skill mods until we know what's safe. A fort that blocks line of sight is fine, but something that increases defense for the group isn't. New skills are okay, but nothing that stacks with anything else until we know exactly what effects it would have when combined with varying levels of that skill already present in the game.
This isn't a matter of whether or not Squad Leader becomes useful, it's a matter of whether or not we'll need to be nerfed because of yet another poorly-designed equation that lets people abuse our skills (and even if we did't get nerfed, would we really want to see squad leader become a tool used to exploit instead of a profession people play because they want to?). It doesn't really matter how strong a boost someone can get from things like food and skill tapes because the caps still apply to those, but since the caps don't apply to our abilities, we can only have small bonuses. It's a trade-off we have to make, unless we're willing to give up being able to improve upon the abilities of the players that have stacked every ability they possibly could already.
Yog-Soth
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:10 am
#16
Interesting thoughts. I like the vehicle mount speed idea. But the hard cap idea, doesn't that add up less than wot it is now ? for example 125 cap , we add our +30 , making it 155. You stated 130-135; wouldn't that diminish the Passive defenses abit ?
Therascalking3
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:55 am
#17
some of those ideas are pretty cool sounding.
One that i think needs work especially is circumvent armor. This is a bad idea because it really makes things less effective in many cases. You see they way armor works is really messed up. Basically a person with no armor takes one hundred percent of damage. A person with a higher AP rating vesus someone in armor gets a bonus for penetrating. So a T21 shooting at AP3 against some comp armor with AR1 is going to do more damage than if you were attacking someone with no armor on. This is why wookies were agains the idea of giving them a natural AR1 bonus to their skin. The effectiveness of the armor then comes into play to make things even more whacked. After armor is revamped maybe this skill will be more useful.
Vehicle speed boost is a great idea i think that is a must for SL revamp.
Battosai-Wolfe
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:40 pm
#18
I haven't been with the SL community for a long time now, but the best change I could imagine see'ing would be more combat effective abilities and less automation. There is so much you could do with the profession other then giving static buffs to your group as long as you're the leader..
Right now as it stands SL is a profession that you can have on a second computer /following a bounty hunter hunting Jedi or other missions that have to do with pvp, and keep it on full automation through basic macro settings. I would personally love to see things like defense hard capped to for example.. 125, while hard capped for a SL at 130-135. This way it will bring the group more in line making the less experianced able to handle more difficult tasks while still enhancing even the most seasoned fighters in a noticable way but still nothing overpowered. This way it would be possible to up the group bonuses by a little even, as long as there was a hard cap.
The other group bonus I would love to see is a vehicle speed/acceleration bonus, not too high but noticable.. Travelling is an important aspect of the SL aside from the combat. It could be added into the Mobility Line and be about as effective as the force sensitive enhancements for vehicles and stackable..
Thats really all i've ever thought SL's needed in the group stat add department..
Now, as to making the squad leader a more "useful" profession. Doing this, would use a few skill additions and rewrites to the current template..
First, Thetactics line should add both melee and ranged defense, removing themelee defense adds from leadership. The leadership line should add +Melee defense and + Range defense (self only, and like all other professions with a cap. It will only get so high even if they have other skills adding to it, this will still stack with the group version which has it's own cap.)
Second, remove the Steady Aim Bonus and Volly Fire Bonus from Strategy II and IV. Add a new skill for Strategy II called "Coordinated Strike" which will make all of the status changing attacks the next round for everyone in the group land much easier and last longer.. IE.. Stun, Intimmidate, Warcry, Dizzy, etc. Finally add a new skill for Strategy IV called "Circumvent Armor" which will execute a normal attack from everyone in the group that will completely ignore armor on the target. This skill will have a reuse time of 2 minutes, reducing to 1 minute at master level.
Third, the Tactics line will then be changed to a more of a "Group Support" type of line that will also give passive to-hit bonuses to the group each ranking of it by (+5, +5, +5, +10 in all 4 ranks). The Rally skill will be a small defense add (stacking with both the capped defense and the capped group defense..) of only5 points, improving to10 at master level. This will raise defense rating to an absolute max of 145. It however will be a large to-hit chance, raising overall accuracy of everyone in the group by 20 points, increasing to 30 points at master level. The duration on this skill will be 1 minute with a recharge of 3 minutes, reducing to 2 minutes at master level. At Tactics II adda new skill called "Steadfast Assault" that will remove stun,dizzy, andintimmidate from the group, it will have a2 minute recharge reducing to 1 minute by master..Tactics III will add a "Hold Your Ground" which gives a group version of Center of Being for a short amount of time with a decent reuse timer.. perhaps 30 second duration with a 1 minute reuse, maybe lowering to 30 second reuse at master level. Remove Retreatfrom the Tactics line. Add a new skill for Tactics IV called "Last Stand" which is a heavily exausting action made by the Squad leader that will raise everyonein their groupout of incap instantly. This skill will have a 45 minute reuse, which is reduced to 30 minutes by master level.
Fourth, the Mobility line.. Move Retreat to this line under the first Mobility skill, while adding a final skill under Mobility IV called "Battlefield Negotiation" which is basically a *toggle* effect retreat, taking a certain amount of health/action/mind from the Squad Leader every few seconds to keep it active, able to be turned on or off at any time. It will be turned off automatically when the squad leader runs out of HAM.
Finally, Master Squad Leader.. Master Squad Leader should take all of these skills and add bonuses to them that reduce their recharge while increasing their overall power. Adding a final skill for Master Squad Leaders..
"Link Squadron" a free skill that when used on the leader of any other group will be able to link your groups togetherin chat, xp, andlooting privlages. If possible, perhaps even add a second line of group members.
Battosai-Wolfe
Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:16 am
#19
It was only an idea, but maybe it could make weapons function at 1 armor piercing rating higher for the next shot.. *Shrugs*
As for the defense, yes it would lower the effectiveness we have with the people that are already maxed in defense (because right now I think that the defense in this game is starting to outweigh the offence, and that isn't going to be pretty when it happens... think.. Master Commando/TKA fully buffed up with doc and entertainer buffs, full 80% resist composite armor, Personal shield generator with 50% resistances against most secondary damage types.)
SpidermanPuddin
Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:58 am
#20
ok, I read most of this but gave up 3/4 of the way down the whole post. But did you ever stop to think about how the devs are taking macros away and how SLs can't be bots anymore?
I dropped Master SL but kept my active abilites that will make it better in places such as the Corvette. I hate being the equavilant of a Bot.
I dropped Master SL but kept my active abilites that will make it better in places such as the Corvette. I hate being the equavilant of a Bot.
JediForceSeeker
Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:01 am
#21
ok im loving the ideas you guys are having with SL. I too think that their abilities should be more effective.
But ive tossing some ideas around, and when you think about what a real 'leader' is, its the strongest, most cunning, and most useful person in the group. Personally, i think that they should add a little bit of some wep mods, for example, like for one box, 'melee speed +2' or w/e. I know that a leader sacrifices himself to protect/help the team and thats all good, but he should be able to hold his own. If hes used his HAM to save the group, he should at least have some benefits that help him.
JediForceSeeker
Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:03 am
#22
sorry, i was tabbing hoping it would indent my paragraphs, sadly i started pressing space, and it had targeted the ''submit post'' buton, sorry
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