Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Official Discussion: Leadership
Woah, this has been outlined crudely before, but you elaborated the idea further than I have read so far: Very well done, I wholeheartedly agree to your post!
CU
Mille
i kind a like the idea for point man as well, but that should fall under the TACTICS line imho. A squad leader should also be able to designate anyone as a point, not just a ranger or scout.
I would also urge us to stay away from "unlocking" class abilities for others. We are here to lead groups...not to create more content for other classes. Well, dotn take that wrong..we create more content BY leading groups and coming upw ith stuff for groups to do, fun, etc. But we should not be here to open doors for classes to gian new abilities and so forth. I think systems liek this would also prove to be bulky and just add too much.
just my thoughts. Not trying to bash anyone
I won't even go down the whole tree as yet, but it seems that the original design implementation of Squad leader focused on benefit to the squad, at sacrifice to the squad leader herself.
So here's me nifty idea for /BoostMorale, which fixes the medic issues, and doesn't piss off the squad:
/BoostMorale has absolutely no HAM cost, and redirects all health/action pool wounds to herself.
In effect, you've boosted the morale of every player in the squad, at cost to yourself. They all thank you for removing their wounds, and the doctor/medic has one target to work on, significantly reducing the amount of time and resources spent taking care of the group.
This also FEELS like the power a tier four skill should hold, and doesn't massively screw over the developer's entire design.
As for the defense boosts, the programming effort is simply changing a few integers, I advise spreading an even +5 ranged and +5 melee throughout each rank of both leadership and tactics, leaving the squad leader's squad with a final +40/+40.
If this is too much, let's talk about adding some squad damage mitigation in stead.
NarCranor wrote:
The melee defense bonuses are nice, although I have no idea what that has to do with leadership.
This had me puzzled too - you think the abilities here would have to do with morale and motivation - form up is a good example, rally would be a better one but it's in the wrong tree.
Still, I think the title of the tree, 'Commissar', explains alot about the philosophy behind the line as it is. Russian troops in WWII were usually kitted out with submachineguns and herded in droves at enemy lines to overwhelm them in close combat. Not only officers, but many of the soldiers, believed that the Germans were cowards hiding behind their technology with fewer numbers. Once a real man got in close the Germans wouldfold up and run. Generally speaking this lead to massive casualties in open combat but in the urban fightingofbattleslike Stalingrad, among other places, is where close quarterscombatin modern warfare became a science. And nobody was better at it than theRed Guard - combat often devolved into hand to hand whenfighting in blackened ruins riddled with hidden tunnels andwrecked alleyways.
'Commissar' was a title used by the politicalor morale officer of aplatoon. His job was to act as an assistant to the commanding officer but also to keep an eye on the unit as a whole and make sure everyone was loyaland fearless, or else.
So that's how I see the devs rationalizing some of their decisions with the Leadership line. I might have done things differently but it sort of makes sense.
I think the /inranksinspection idea is great! I hope to see it or something like it in the revamp.
PanzerGR wrote:Defense mods should be increased....period. TKA's can get defense modifiers 3 times better than what we give. We should be, without doubt, THE CLASS for defense mods. When someone says, who gives good defenses, the 1st answer should be, Squad Leaders.
as it is now if i say to sum1 in an elite brawler class, mostly TKA's......"I can give u defense MOD's" they say "why do i nee yours, i have enough of my own".
so theres that.
we should also get a defense acuity modifier for our groups. Nothing drastic soemthing along th eline sof +5/+5/+5/+10 for a total of +25.
ALSO, and this is IMPORTANT for all of our abilities. We should be able to use it while knocked down. You can talk while knocked down. It isnt too hard to yell out while your on the ground either. All you have to yell is "form up" for petes sake. This crap about not being able to use it while on the ground needs ot be taken care of, it doesnt make any sense.
heh sorry picked a long post to quote instead of filtering it out. my 2 cents:
I think a TKA has better defenses than anybody for the simple reason that Teras Kasi are supposed to dedicate their lives to using their body. Squad Leaders are the best at defense for larger warfare, whereas TKAs are basically meant for 1v1. Squad Leaders might get more ranged defense or be able to cure states like dizzy, stun, blind, like /formup.
You can talk while knocked down only because if you could do nothing until you regain consciousness then people would hate it. Notice you can't talk in spatial, because you are unconscious. You can't give orders if you can't move a muscle
Other cents:
Squad Leader. Leadership. Shouldn't this tree be what Squad Leader is all about? The other 3 are skills that the SL should use, but Leadership should be about forming up, boosting morale, I like the inspect ranks thing. Maybe Master SL get my favorite idea:
/command - Syntax would be "/command /suppressionfire1." Gives the SL the ability to command someone, PC or NPC, to use a skill that they have. SLs would be so powerful only because if they know how to use a group then they won't have to rely on people paying attention or if they are big talkers like some people I know
ok bye!
Wystery wrote:
PanzerGR wrote:
Defense mods should be increased....period. TKA's can get defense modifiers 3 times better than what we give. We should be, without doubt, THE CLASS for defense mods. When someone says, who gives good defenses, the 1st answer should be, Squad Leaders.
as it is now if i say to sum1 in an elite brawler class, mostly TKA's......"I can give u defense MOD's" they say "why do i nee yours, i have enough of my own".
so theres that.
we should also get a defense acuity modifier for our groups. Nothing drastic soemthing along th eline sof +5/+5/+5/+10 for a total of +25.
ALSO, and this is IMPORTANT for all of our abilities. We should be able to use it while knocked down. You can talk while knocked down. It isnt too hard to yell out while your on the ground either. All you have to yell is "form up" for petes sake. This crap about not being able to use it while on the ground needs ot be taken care of, it doesnt make any sense.
heh sorry picked a long post to quote instead of filtering it out. my 2 cents:
I think a TKA has better defenses than anybody for the simple reason that Teras Kasi are supposed to dedicate their lives to using their body. Squad Leaders are the best at defense for larger warfare, whereas TKAs are basically meant for 1v1. Squad Leaders might get more ranged defense or be able to cure states like dizzy, stun, blind, like /formup.
You can talk while knocked down only because if you could do nothing until you regain consciousness then people would hate it. Notice you can't talk in spatial, because you are unconscious. You can't give orders if you can't move a muscle
Other cents:
Squad Leader. Leadership. Shouldn't this tree be what Squad Leader is all about? The other 3 are skills that the SL should use, but Leadership should be about forming up, boosting morale, I like the inspect ranks thing. Maybe Master SL get my favorite idea:
/command - Syntax would be "/command /suppressionfire1." Gives the SL the ability to command someone, PC or NPC, to use a skill that they have. SLs would be so powerful only because if they know how to use a group then they won't have to rely on people paying attention or if they are big talkers like some people I know
ok bye!
if i get knocked down i can still bloody well speak. Im not unconsious.
furthermore SL's should give bonuses because that is what we are there for.....if we dont give decent bonuses compared to other classes then why have them at all.
i do not feel an SL should be a "supplement" to anyone. Which is how i feel many of you are takign this. SL's use more of their points than most other hybrid and certainyl more than elite professions. We should not supplement an dbe secondary. We should give MAJOR boosts and have a relative standfastness of our own.
If we give defense MOD's that are 25% of a TKA's....then why not just be TKA and even bother with being grouped. If some of the thing si have heard are true, and soem of the defense MOD's and Dodge etc are capped (and i do believe those that arent will be soon)...then if you have a class liek TKA with unbelievable defense MODs you just ignore SL's, as i pointed out.
We should give very noticeable bonuses so that people want to be led by a SL. Currently no one could give a rats bottom if they are with an SL or not.
Novice-------- +15 Lore
Leadership1--- +10 Lore
Leadership2--- +15 Lore
Leadership2--- +15 Lore
LEadership4--- +20 Lore
Master-------- +25 Lore
Now please don't think that I want all the other skills and bonuses in leadership to go away i just don't have time to write them and really don't have any other good ideas for cool new stuff-an-stuff
What this would do is just make failure rates nonexistant for masters and give a good (fluffy) reason to make novice SL's fail ALOT.
I posted this type of a suggestion once but due to my unorganized self forgot where i posted it. and im sorry if i ripped off someones idea i haven't had a chance to read all the forum posts yet so sorry in advance.
I personally hate failing it sux i hope they fix it. i mean in the US army they say "When i say JUMP you are to reply with the words HOW HIGH" i see no reason why a Master SL should fail yelling a command. I mean what happens when you fail do you like choak on a hairball cough up another lekku or start coughing up blood makes no sense to me
Failures are what happens when the squad forgets it's got a leader.
/rally
You fail to rally the group
"I didn't need a mind heal, thx"
"I was rallying"
"oh"
Maybe it's just me, but the most annoying aspect of being a master squad leader I've found so far is that your group really has no inclination to let you lead. They're happy to get bonuses, but they still get them if they ignore everything you say.
I'd like to see the leadership tree give the squad leader a greater ability tocommand their squad effectively. Like a command that makes your group stand down, unable to engage in combat until you cancel it orsomeone isattacked (only if they're not already fighting, of course). It's hard to run a group when you have one or twopeople that think they can kill anything and run off shooting things they shouldn't without any warning. They tend to bring it back to the group and get everyone killed, frequently while you're busy healing or planning your attack.