Squad Leader Archive

Just curious.. As SL's are supposed to be the champions of the new Post-CURB Grouping mentality, how are you seeing this new XP change affect groups? More groups? Fewer groups? Half-full groups or Duo's? The dreaded return of the "Solo Group"?

Just a thread to catalog our observations. I'm off to make some observations of my own.

Initial observations:

1) Formed a group with myself (lvl80 MSL/Master Carbineer), lvl75 Jedi, and lvl15 Apprentice Swordsman). Got a 9.9% XP Bonus for the group, and a 10% inspiration bonus. Killing lvl80 Vicious Huf Duns on Talus for 1,971XP a pop. The jedi & the lvl15 were each getting ~300 xp a pop.

2) Added a lvl80 CH and his lvl62 Spider Pet to the group: 1522XP, +13.20% group bonus.. Whether the pet was in or out of the group did not change the numbers.

3) Added a lvl80 to the group who promptly left to get his own missions and go solo. Dropped the XP per kill down to 1194xp, with a 16.5% group bonus. So even if the group members are out of range or do not engage they still count against your numbers. A whole new reason to drop dead weight.

4) We then added a Rebel Specforce trooper (NPC) to the group. No change to XP numbers.

5) The new lvl80 & his trooper left the group, and XP increased to 1450xp per kill, 13.2% group bonus. I don't know why it did not return to the 1522 number from before

This test was conducted over a Huf DUn lair & a Kimo lair, both with lvl80 creatures only. After these two lairs, I logged in disgust. I think our profession has just been relegated to "Base Takedown" duty, as I don't see many people grouping like this.

Specific Numbers: (Cliff Notes Version)
With a 10% Inspiration buff (as is the standard these days).
against a lvl80
2 people - 6.6% - ???
3 people - 9.9% - 1971 XP
4 people - 13.2% - 1522 XP or 1450 XP
5 people - 16.5% - 1194 XP
against a lvl82
6 people - 19.2% - 1023 XP
7 people - 23.1% - 901 XP
8 people - 25% - ??


Other observations from around the galaxy
On Radiant, the DAntooine Mining Outpost is "the place" for pickup XP groups for Bol missions. Typically you can find 2 to 3 groups forming at any given time. Tonight it's a city in protest, 30 or so people complaining about the XP Nerf. Ok, ignore them. Within about 3 minutes I'm invited to a group and join up. To my surprise, none of them know about the XP nerf. I explain it to them, they basically repeat all the steps I listed above anyway. One guy immediateyl logs, claiming he's going to cancel his alt. The rest of us head for the nearest mission. Killing a lvl82 Seething Bol in a group of 6 results in 1023XP, with a 19.2% group bonus. We pick up a 7th and that drops me to 901xp, with a 23.1% bonus. The poor lvl10 in the group only gets 180xp per lvl82 kill.

After a few kills, the group quickly disbands. Most of them seems to log (judging by the LD's), the rest (the lvl80's) go solo.

Coronet is pretty empty..

Theed has a crowd, but it's the same pvp-seeking crowd as every night. No mention of the XP change.

Tattoine, Mos eisley has a surprisingly large crowd. A visit to the Cantina shows a building FULL of people with master combat tags, dancing or playing instruments. ?

Message Edited by Yeraze on 08-17-200509:33 PM

Message Edited by Yeraze on 08-18-2005 08:30 AM

Message Edited by Yeraze on 08-18-2005 08:34 AM

Well my squadleader toon has no point in grouping now, and the only time I'd be of use is when we go PVP or do base takedowns, group grinds are going to be near non existant.

Updated with a "cliff notes" block ..

Ok, looking at these numbers, I think we need to do some number crunching.

First, I'm going to make a very base assumption: a group of X members can kill X times faster then they could solo, ie a group of 2 can kill twice as fast and a group of 8 can kill 8 times as fast. Working under this assumption, a group ofX will killX times as fast, and given that xp is divided among them, they recieve 1/4 the xp, thus it can be assumed that theoretically the group members rate of XP gain will be the same solo as grouped not counting the group bonus.

Example: Solo Bob can kill 100 nunas in an hour, gaining 100 xp per kill, thus 100,000 xp per hour. Grouped with Steve, they can kill 200 nunas in an hour, gaining 50 xp per kill each, thus 100,000 xp per hour.

From this, the group xp bonus is where the tweaking I think needs to be looked at. Effectively, the group bonus divided by the number of members is how much more XP per time you will get. From that:

2 people - 6.6% - 3.3% per member
3 people - 9.9% -3.3% per member
4 people - 13.2% - 3.3% per member
5 people - 16.5% -3.3% per member
6 people - 19.2% -3.2% per member
7 people - 23.1% -3.3% per member
8 people - 25% - 3.125% per member

Based on these assumptions and calculations, grouping with 1 person or 7 people, the XP gain per hour is the same: 3.3% more per hour.

My thoughts:

1. I think the 3.3% needs to be tweaked, closer to 5 or 10%.


2. Increase the bonus per member for a larger group, maybe by the time you have a full man group the bonus is effectively double.

Suggestion based on 5% increasing to 10%:

2 people - 10% - 5% per member
3 people - 17.5% -5.8% per member
4 people - 26.5% - 6.7% per member
5 people - 37.5% -7.5% per member
6 people - 50% -8.3% per member
7 people - 64% -9.2% per member
8 people - 80% - 10% per member

Another possibility would be to use the diminishing returns scale similar to that used in armor, so the advantage from 2 to 3 to 4 is very noticable, but from 6 to 7 to 8 is minorly so.

::head splodes::

But seriously i agree with ya that would be a better bonus the rate exp comes in now is kinda well erm like picking at a large mountain with a pick axe

loki, i believe there is a flaw in your logic there. certainly not trying to flame or insult you, but i wanted to point out some observations and corrections.

you are suggesting that an 8 man group will earn 800,000 xp with each player getting an even share of that amount augmented by their share of the group bonus. this gives us

800,000 / 8 = 100,000 x (.25 / 8 = .03125) = 103,125 per player

however, if the group bonus is added to the total xp earned you get a higher amount

800,000 x 1.25 = 1,000,000 / 8 = 125,000 per player

admittedly, i have not yet tested to determine either, but i would suspect the latter formula is the correct one. (i certainly hope that it is anyway). in either case, you're better off in a group than solo if just for the xp bonus xp gained. besides, you'll get the mission credit reward not just for your lairs, but those of your group mates as well.

Doh, that's what I get for trying to work on this in the back of my head while also trying to work on a couple project for work, end up over complicating things and not looking at the numbers closely enough.

It is clear that we are owed yet another explanation. I'm gonna be scarce the next few days, but I'll see what i can find out. Y'all be cool.

I believe you also have to assume that you can kill the same number of creatures quicker in a group than solo. This would leave me to believe that, even though you get less per kill in a group than solo,you would get more xp over time in a group. Since SL can help a group kill even faster, then SLs should be valuable to groups seeking to max their xp.

The main problem is that the xp justisn't near as much as we were getting. I have to admit, I think the xp we were experiencing was a little out of line and probably easier than what they intended. This probably would have been a lot easier to take if they would have started out handling group xp in this manner. Timing is everything.

Well, what I loved previously was that Groups were a no-brainer. Even the lowliest of players could join into a group and see the benefits. A favorite pasttime of mine was finding low level players and playing "bodyguard" while they went after high-level stuff.

Now groups really are a "benefits vs costs" thing. Can this group that's invited you really grind through stuff 5x-8x faster than you can solo? Or will you spend all your time calling/storing pets, healing, chewing out people for screwing up the pull, etc?