Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Grouping, and experience gains in and out of groups during CU testing and how it hurts Squad leaders
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KreuzRitter
Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:46 am
#1
First, let me say I tested extensively in group and out of group. (I was grouped with 2 other players)
In group:
I was grinding unarmed 1, and on a green creature, I recieved 11 Unarmed XP and 1 Combat XP.
NOT grouped:
I attacked the same exact level and species of creature (it was a lair), and recieved approx. 230 Unarmed XP, and approx. 23 Combat XP.
How this hurts SL's:
Pretty self explanatory, if everyone is going solo for XP (who are we kidding, the majority of time playing this game is grinding so we can have fun later, especially now since the master box's for elites say that elite's require 1 million xp)
we will have no one to lead.
Naturally, since I am a tactically minded player when it comes to combat, I see this as a problem...
Correspondents? Dev's? An answer on this please?
In group:
I was grinding unarmed 1, and on a green creature, I recieved 11 Unarmed XP and 1 Combat XP.
NOT grouped:
I attacked the same exact level and species of creature (it was a lair), and recieved approx. 230 Unarmed XP, and approx. 23 Combat XP.
How this hurts SL's:
Pretty self explanatory, if everyone is going solo for XP (who are we kidding, the majority of time playing this game is grinding so we can have fun later, especially now since the master box's for elites say that elite's require 1 million xp)
we will have no one to lead.
Naturally, since I am a tactically minded player when it comes to combat, I see this as a problem...
Correspondents? Dev's? An answer on this please?
Message Edited by KreuzRitter on 04-07-2005 02:53 AM
JagdKatze
Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:30 am
#2
I was a participant in this trial with Kreuz, and I had the same effect (just different numbers) using a rifle. I'm a 4-0-0-0 Brawler and a 4-2-4-4 Marksman. Could our skillsets have anything to do with that? In and out of group I consistently got more XP than he did. And I cant imagine why. We tried killing the same class enemies using only one attack with the same gun and I would get more XP. And I'm a higher level than he is!
So WTH is wrong with the XP system here? And why is group XP being so thoroughly nerfed? I am looking forward to being in a squad and actually having it MEAN SOMETHING to have an SL leading it. But if this keeps up we'll be right back to where we are in the live servers; where the SL's are 1 in 1,000.
Come on guys, get this problem figured out and squared away!
Ackehece
Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:29 am
#3
KreuzRitter wrote:
First, let me say I tested extensively in group and out of group. (I was grouped with 2 other players)
In group:
I was grinding unarmed 1, and on a green creature, I recieved 11 Unarmed XP and 1 Combat XP.
NOT grouped:
I attacked the same exact level and species of creature (it was a lair), and recieved approx. 230 Unarmed XP, and approx. 23 Combat XP.
How this hurts SL's:
Pretty self explanatory, if everyone is going solo for XP (who are we kidding, the majority of time playing this game is grinding so we can have fun later, especially now since the master box's for elites say that elite's require 1 million xp)
we will have no one to lead.
Naturally, since I am a tactically minded player when it comes to combat, I see this as a problem...
Correspondents? Dev's? An answer on this please?
Message Edited by KreuzRitter on 04-07-2005 02:53 AM
1 observation here. Your con level would have increased as a group member so you would have to attack a higher level creature to get the same or larger exp reward.
this is not a bad thing as the higher the the con of the target the closer you can get to getting your maximum xp reward.
- out of group con level 14 and max xp is around 1500 or so (not including bugged babies)
- in group con level 24 max xp hit4200 xp per kill
- the rule is you have to go after much higher con creatures in a group - they die just as fast but the reward is greater
- hunt targets that con at least circle level to you and up to yellow up arrow (never red or purple)
Ackehece
Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:31 am
#4
There are also level xpcaps in place. If he was the same level as you he should have gotten the same xp as you.
JagdKatze wrote:
I was a participant in this trial with Kreuz, and I had the same effect (just different numbers) using a rifle. I'm a 4-0-0-0 Brawler and a 4-2-4-4 Marksman. Could our skillsets have anything to do with that? In and out of group I consistently got more XP than he did. And I cant imagine why. We tried killing the same class enemies using only one attack with the same gun and I would get more XP. And I'm a higher level than he is!
So WTH is wrong with the XP system here? And why is group XP being so thoroughly nerfed? I am looking forward to being in a squad and actually having it MEAN SOMETHING to have an SL leading it. But if this keeps up we'll be right back to where we are in the live servers; where the SL's are 1 in 1,000.
Come on guys, get this problem figured out and squared away!
Blackferne
Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:14 pm
#5
Basically my TC observations have been more or less that grouping is advantagous to a point, but beyond that point (depending on the targeted mobs) it has diminishing returns. Now with midlevel testing starting this might prove to be less truw as we are able to form more specialized groups to face higher con lvls)
_scout_
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:03 am
#6
I hadn't very much time testing in the last few days.
But thinking of this grouplevel con size and I see a small flaw it in.
What if ...
... I as a MSL want to group with 7 very low level (1-3) PC to help them to level?
As I would raise the con level of all characters and we have a "huge" group we have to go for higher level mobs, but wouldnt they be almost to hard to take down for them when they only can equip CDEF weapons? I think these are worries going around in the doc prof too, since if a high lvl doc groups with very low level characters to heal and help them, the low level characters have to go after higher level mobs hardly doing any damage, but in return getting out a lot of damage, close to "one hit kills" for lower level character.
I know that armor is out now, and this might drastically change it.
I just wanted to mention my current concerns with the group con level.
In addition:
I noticed on TC on wednesday that I only have to hit a creature one time to get the full xp for it if Im grouped with the person that "actually" kills it. The amount of XP I got was the same as when I killed one on my own but still grouped.
I'll hope i get some time later today to have a look at the armor and the new weapons stats...
.
But thinking of this grouplevel con size and I see a small flaw it in.
What if ...
... I as a MSL want to group with 7 very low level (1-3) PC to help them to level?
As I would raise the con level of all characters and we have a "huge" group we have to go for higher level mobs, but wouldnt they be almost to hard to take down for them when they only can equip CDEF weapons? I think these are worries going around in the doc prof too, since if a high lvl doc groups with very low level characters to heal and help them, the low level characters have to go after higher level mobs hardly doing any damage, but in return getting out a lot of damage, close to "one hit kills" for lower level character.
I know that armor is out now, and this might drastically change it.
I just wanted to mention my current concerns with the group con level.
In addition:
I noticed on TC on wednesday that I only have to hit a creature one time to get the full xp for it if Im grouped with the person that "actually" kills it. The amount of XP I got was the same as when I killed one on my own but still grouped.
I'll hope i get some time later today to have a look at the armor and the new weapons stats...
.
Ackehece
Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:59 am
#7
_scout_ wrote:
I hadn't very much time testing in the last few days.
But thinking of this grouplevel con size and I see a small flaw it in.
What if ...
... I as a MSL want to group with 7 very low level (1-3) PC to help them to level?
As I would raise the con level of all characters and we have a "huge" group we have to go for higher level mobs, but wouldnt they be almost to hard to take down for them when they only can equip CDEF weapons? I think these are worries going around in the doc prof too, since if a high lvl doc groups with very low level characters to heal and help them, the low level characters have to go after higher level mobs hardly doing any damage, but in return getting out a lot of damage, close to "one hit kills" for lower level character.
I know that armor is out now, and this might drastically change it.
I just wanted to mention my current concerns with the group con level.
In addition:
I noticed on TC on wednesday that I only have to hit a creature one time to get the full xp for it if Im grouped with the person that "actually" kills it. The amount of XP I got was the same as when I killed one on my own but still grouped.
I'll hope i get some time later today to have a look at the armor and the new weapons stats...
It's worse then that. The xp is split along the lines of level of ability as far as I can tell as well. So if a SL con level say 40 had a group of newbs that were con level 5 the sl would get approx 1500 xp per kill the newbs would get 5-10xp per kill...
this is what discourages grouping....
KreuzRitter
Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:38 pm
#8
Well, I hope they work on the way that groups handle XP, it should be a benefit for newbs to join an experienced SL, in essence, he/she would be "teaching" them about teamwork.. so they'd get more experienced. 
*QUOTE*
_scout_ wrote:
I hadn't very much time testing in the last few days.
But thinking of this grouplevel con size and I see a small flaw it in.
What if ...
... I as a MSL want to group with 7 very low level (1-3) PC to help them to level?
As I would raise the con level of all characters and we have a "huge" group we have to go for higher level mobs, but wouldnt they be almost to hard to take down for them when they only can equip CDEF weapons? I think these are worries going around in the doc prof too, since if a high lvl doc groups with very low level characters to heal and help them, the low level characters have to go after higher level mobs hardly doing any damage, but in return getting out a lot of damage, close to "one hit kills" for lower level character.
I know that armor is out now, and this might drastically change it.
I just wanted to mention my current concerns with the group con level.
In addition:
I noticed on TC on wednesday that I only have to hit a creature one time to get the full xp for it if Im grouped with the person that "actually" kills it. The amount of XP I got was the same as when I killed one on my own but still grouped.
I'll hope i get some time later today to have a look at the armor and the new weapons stats...
It's worse then that. The xp is split along the lines of level of ability as far as I can tell as well. So if a SL con level say 40 had a group of newbs that were con level 5 the sl would get approx 1500 xp per kill the newbs would get 5-10xp per kill...
this is what discourages grouping....
*END QUOTE*
Irott, can you bring this up to the dev team?
Escag
Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:21 am
#9
When you group up with other people, make sure you attack creatures that are higher con than the group. Personally, I feel faster grinding with other people at the same con. We can kill things faster, and we still get the same amount of exp. Iagree that there shouldbe alevel xpcaps in place. If there is no cap,people can power grinding each other.Withou exp cap, people can master profession faster than the old system.
JagdKatze
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:06 am
#10
Another test tonight, this time with a lvl 15, and two lvl 17's, and a lvl 22.
Group level was 22, and we got lvl 19 missions. The lvl 22 character left and we managed okay, we could tank one creature at a time and got about 1300 XP from them. (No inspiration buffs) Butone lvl 17 left and suddenly our damage output dropped to 0. And I was the heaviest hitter in the group! As a commando/Rifleman, I could no longer tank (which I could before, easily) and got killed in just a few hits. Also, it took almost double the specials to do half the damage.
...wth
Great xp system. If you arent grouped with 8 people of the exact same level...you are going nowhere. Because killing creatures on your own level gives you sh*t for xp. As a lvl 17 I kill lvl 18 Cu Pas and Sand Beetles for 780 XP apeice. As a Novice rifleman, that makes for one f*cking HUGE grind. The xp/con system needs to go back to normal, so if a creature deals 100 points of damage, it will always deal 100 points of damage regardless of who you are grouped with. And the XP should GROW with you like it currently does. A novice TKA gets like 2500 per squill. A 4-4-0-0 TKA gets around 5K as it currently stands. This is a good system and it WORKS. Throw this level system out the window and give us the old one back, with new squad bonuses like XP gain. This current TC system makes it impossible for an SL to effectively assist newbs or other classes lower than him/her self without killing their XP gain.
Correspondants; get this system thrown out! Its garbage and you know it. Leave EQ2 and WoW for all the trolls and leaf gnomes. Those of us that live in Star Wars dont need their magic-missle casting influence.
_scout_
Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:31 am
#11
Someone said in the in testing forum, that the group leader should set the group level at a lvl between the lowest and highest char in the group, which could be an option but would/could be (certainly) abused.
.
.
Vindale
Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:13 pm
#12
I've mastered commando and just about done my build in the CU, I'll give you a quick run down on how the xp system works.
xp is "capped" by your Combat level, xp gained is the players combat level vs the con of the mob. This will never change while in a group or not. If a solo level 10 player kills a white con and gets 1000 xp, if he joins a lvl 100 group and kills a lvl 100 white con he will still only get 1000 xp ( plus group bonus ). To gain more xp you need to up your combat level.
Grouping is the only way to get xp in the CU and SLs will be needed... they just need to work on your tree a bit more =)
xp is "capped" by your Combat level, xp gained is the players combat level vs the con of the mob. This will never change while in a group or not. If a solo level 10 player kills a white con and gets 1000 xp, if he joins a lvl 100 group and kills a lvl 100 white con he will still only get 1000 xp ( plus group bonus ). To gain more xp you need to up your combat level.
Grouping is the only way to get xp in the CU and SLs will be needed... they just need to work on your tree a bit more =)
Ackehece
Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:36 pm
#13
ok... as per much dev input:
full XP reward amount is based on the con difference of the target killed. Killing white cons in a group should earn you the exact same amount of XP as killing white cons solo (plus the group bonus.)
XP is not split in any manner
- Every player gets their full amount of XP per kill based on the con.
- The only reason you will see higher level players getting more XP is because they are higher level and require more XP. Their higher amounts of XP has no impact on the amount of XP that any other player earns.
- Adding players to a group should never result in a decrease in the XP earned, unless that player changes the group level and thus the con of the targets attacked.
- At the very least grouping should earn you the group XP bonus (which increases per person in the group) but more realistically your total XP over time should increase as well due to being able to kill white cons (and even higher) faster than you could possibly kill them solo.
- con colors are reduced and simplified by using a single color to represent a range of level differences but all the calculations work on the actual level difference.
- The XP you get for killing a target two levels lower than you will always be the same for a given player level and the XP you get for killing a target one level lower will also be the same, etc.
- As you level up you will get more experience per kill because of the increased difficulty and the increased experience requirements.
- For groups the level difference is calculated for the group, so a level 30 target for a level 32 group will also be two levels under, and that is applied to your level which means you will get the same XP for killing that level 30 target with a level 32 group as killing a target solo two levels under your player level.
- The big group XP gains come because of the groups ability to hunt higher level targets and to hunt them faster, not necessarily from each individual kill.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 04-13-2005 05:36 PM
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