Squad Leader Archive

Well I have been lurking around here a lot lately and I have to say that there has been drama abound. And I just thought I would share some thoughts with you guys.

1. Captain V resigned and that was sad, I had a tremendous amount of respect for him (although I also have a lot of respect for TH) and I think thata lot of this was just a failure in communication coupled with the neglect that we (the SL profession) are often showed. In the end I think that neither captain V nor TH are in the right or wrong. Both are trying to make this game better, I truly belive that it was a combination of captain V feeling incredibally neglected and TH just being very very busy. So I think that all of the flaming in this topic really needs to stop, just IMO.

2. People really need to stop calling out TH. Yes he is reading the prof boards more often, but people calling him out and screaming about how we needa fix aren't helping anything. This is exactly the kinda thing that captain V was against. This board has always had amazing composure especially considering the state of our profession and I think it should remain as it was. Just because Cap is gone doesn't mean screaming here is going to fix anything.

3. Suggestions need to keep coming in, many people here are making some awesome suggestions, and we need more of that and less bitching. The devs would most definetally be more responsive to well organized, civilized people then they will be to a group of screaming people. We can't degenerate into the mob.

I think that the screaming started when Cpt. V, a pillar of patience, resigned. people really feel neglected, and I don't blame them. I agree that we need to start being more positive, me most of all. Ive been yelling alot since Friday, and I'm sick of it. Guys, I appreciate those of you that have tried to stay rational. I only get mad when someone blast's your comment, and then either refuses, or is incapable of understanding your point. I may not agree with someone, and i will argue with them to see my point. But at some point I will "agree to disagree" There are poeple on this board, and in this game community, that just start name calling, and acting foolish. Let's not drop any lower than I think we've already gone.

What's that I hear? Could it be the voice of reason??? Here?!?

I do want to point out that I kinda saw the Captain's resignation coming....Since around the time he posted regarding the Command Correspondent's resignation, I noticed his mood growing ever more sour with each post. Even so, whilelosing Vemnox strikes deep into our collective heart,we must be careful not to fall to the Dark Side.

Just today in Thunderhearts weekly update, Squad Leaders WERE mentioned and Th says that he is working to get a response to our Top Five early in this week. Hopefully that is a sign of real change coming soon... If not a change to our profession, at least this will change the amount of feedback we've had (going from NONE to SOME is a quantum leap) and that's a good sign in my book.

Keep your chins up everyone! That IS our job, remember.

You guys are on the right track. "You'll always catch more flies with honey..." No offense intended at the flies comment. Keep a positive attitude and get together with the top 5 issues (even if you have 50)...start with 5 to give them something to work with. Once both parties have earned some trust back, progress will be made.

-G

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Toga_Assasin wrote:

2. People really need to stop calling out TH.

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Maybe a little insight will helpeveryone here, or at least help you understand why people do it. Do an advanced search for posts created by Thunderheart, and go to page 5. You'll notice that as of early October and on, Thunderheart has a disturbing habit of replying to posts that have his name in them.

That is why people call him out. He is encouraging people to do so, whether he realizes it or not.

Yeah, Thunderheart himself acknowledges his own weakness in that regard. But I don't think that's the kind of calling out Toga was referring to... "Invoking" Thunderheart's response by using his name in a post is one thing, calling for his resignation is quite another. I was quite glad to see that Jeassa got that thing locked.

You know, I'm really tired of seeing everyone being super-careful about what we say to and about the Sony staff. We pay money for a service, so expecting something in return for that isn't out of line. Sure, they don't specifically owe us anything more than keeping the servers running and saving our characters, but I'm certainly not going to be careful what I say to someone whom I am paying to render a service.

I see this same thing in many of my college courses - people are paying tens of thousands of dollars a year for an education and yet they never question the quality of that education or demand more from the people they are paying, even when the people they are paying for their education are operating at a bottom-of-the-barrel level. These kids always look amazed when I tell them how I feel - that my professors work for me. I pay them to give me something, and if they don't give me at least the baseline amount of what I think I should be getting, I have the responsibility - andthe right,but mainlythe responsibility - to call them out on it. The common idea against the reality of it all is that they "don't want to get in trouble". This is an absurd idea bred by people being raised without needing to, demanding to, or ever learning to accept personal responsibility. People don't want to call out developers or customer service reps or anyone in powerbecause of this very idea - the nebulous, ill-defined "trouble" - and its sickening. If I pay for food at a restaraunt, I'm certainly going to expect to get what I ask for, and if I decide to argue thatmaybe my steak isn't as done as I would likeit to be, do I worry that I'm going to get in trouble?Would you? Sure they can throw me out, but what kind of a restaraunt throws someone out for saying "this isn't what I ordered?" If they throw you out for something like that, do you really want to eat there anyways?

So, do Thunderheart, Jeassa, Q3PO, and the rest work for me? After a fashion, yes they do, just like my professors work for me. If my professor doesn't show up for a majority of the classes, I have a serious problem with it. If I sign up for World Lit. and instead theprof wants to talk about TV shows, I'm going to behighly dissatisfied. The same thing goes for SWG and Squad Leader - our profession receiving absolutely no attention since launch is the equivalent of taking agraduate level course and having a substitute all semester.The option is there to just not go to class, but I already spent my money, its too late to get a refund, and now my only recourse is to complain until it gets made right. And again, the point of statement here is not to define what"getting it made right" means, but to illustrate that it is our right to voice concerns, opinions, and yes (Heaven Forfend) evencomplaints if we feel like they should be made.

It is not often well articulated, but the idea that quitting or threatening the monetary income of a company like Sony as a means to an end is often brought up, and this idea is often stated poorly and never gets enough support togain any serious momentum. Sony doesn't work for me directly, but they work for my dollars. The dollar is boss. Since I provide that dollar, I feel as if I have theright - as well as the responsibility- to call it when I think I'm getting rodgered. I don't expect Sony to call me on the phone and ask me what I want and give it to me, that isn't how they work for me. But they work for me -AND YOU - to a large enough extent thatwe should never be afraid to voice our opinions about the serviceswe pay for in a well-reasoned and logical manner.

This isn't in defense of people who say things like "OMG OMG YOU EAT IT I H8 U SOYN! Y R U SO MEAN?!!!111!!" or even the nefarious name-calling and epithet-spreading. But would you please, for the love of God, act like you care about where your money goes? Be adults and not worry about "getting in trouble?" Say what you mean and mean what you say?

What kind of leaders are we if we can't articulate our thoughts on those things which are important to us without some needless fear pulling the punch?

There are a few who do that. Sadly there are not enough. I agree that we need to start acting like adults, be rational, and be more organized in our complaining, and also be more constructive.

Yeah, I don't post often but I do read up. Scanning that exchange between TH and the Captain I had to wonder why CV didn't just send TH a more concisely summarized list as requested. Instead things seemed to devolve into a pissing match that didn't serve me as a community member.

I understand frustration, believe me, but when you finally get the guy on the tech support line it doesn't help to ignore his instructions because you want to fix things 'your way'.

Well said Ionian. I am not a squad leader nor do i intend on being one. I just passed through here and read your post and couldn't agree with you more. Your analogies in scholastics fit perfectly.

thank you,

Thanks guys. Although I want to be clear on what I meant - that I wasn't indicting anyone in particular for being immature or anything, I was specifically indicting everyone who thinks its a bad idea to call out the Sony staff about things that are bad, or need to be discussed.

wow my eyes hurt

havent read a thread this long........ever

but really we DO needto b more constructive just play the game and watch things change.....we will get our fix --- it may take a while but we WILL get it

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JEAUX_ZUF wrote:

wow my eyes hurt

havent read a thread this long........ever

but really we DO need to b more constructive just play the game and watch things change.....we will get our fix --- it may take a while but we WILL get it

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We will get our fix, but the beuty of this board is that we get to help with the decision process. We, the people who play the game, and often have a passion for the profession we play get a hand in deciding the fate of the profession.

It's one thing to sit back and watch changes, and adapt or complain when they happen. It's another to have an idea, and see it put into game.

If it's your idea, it's gotaa be good *sarcastic grin*