Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Active vs. Passive Abilities
Passive abilities are currently our most valued possession, and we'd all love to see more of them. Personally, I'm particularly interested in Squad Leaders being given the ability to increase the rate at which HAM points expended for specials get regened. However, I think that new and improved ACTIVE abilities are the biggest issue holding SL's back from being what we ought to be.
A passive ability is great for encouraging Solo-minded players to "bring a SL friend," so that even though we've spent too many points on Squad Leader to have combat abilities that allow us to face the high-end content of the game, we can at least get brought along for the ride. However, it's ACTIVE abilities that actually give us something to do once we get there! I'm concerned that an overabundance of passive abilities, without some game dynamic changing actives will encourage zombie squad leaders.
My current favorite ideas for passive abilities are to take advantage of the changes currently on Test Center to the HAM and the new Damage Mitigation system. I'd love to see Squad Leaders be the "key" to unlocking these strengthening features. However, if this is ALL we got, it might encourage more people to group with Squad Leaders...potentially so much as to cause PowerGamers to usea second account to make a Squad Leader /autofollow them as they continue about their merry (otherwise) soloing ways. This is not the best thing for the well-being of full-time professionalSquad Leaders.
When I decided to become a Squad Leader, I envisioned a different style of gameplay wherein I no longer used brute force to tackle my enemies, but instead focused on tactics and strategy to help myself and a group of friends "work smarter, not harder." But this is the element most greatly lacking in the Squad Leader profession! Our tactical abilities are the ubiquitous /rally and and the ever-so-tactical /retreat....?? Our strategies include a /steadyaim that hardly makes a discernable effect on most groups and /volleyfire which does more to assist your enemy (by robbing SL mind points) than it does your squad who would be better served to use their own specials without our alleged help.
This is why I'm a bit more interested in things like my /aimfor command, or a command to stack a modifier (like AoE, DoT, or state change) onto group attacks, or even increased communications tools like /painttarget and the ability to see group waypoints, etc...than I am with additional passive benefits. I still love my passives and want more, I just think that actives are more crucial in the process of fulfilling the true potential of Squad Leaders.
Passive abilities will bring Squad Leaders to the party....Actives will allow us to be more than wallflowers when we get there.
Good post.
I don't have a whole lot to add, other than a quick word about two of our active skills, /steadyaim and /volleyfire.
/steadyaim works, other than the HAM cost,but the fact that it is the most "benificial" skill in the tree is pathetic. /volleyfire is pointless. If it were to allow people to use their special, and give them a 1.75 dmg modifier, it would be worth the bantha crap, specifically, HAM cost. New skills need to be added to that line. I envision that branch (and a skill to mster)looking something like this:
Master: HAM specific attack. /volleyfire, as it is now, except with a 1.25 dmg modifier, that can be targeted against specific HAM pools. It's in the master box for a reason.
Strategy IV: Advanced volley fire. 1.75 dmg volleyfire, with specials. HAM costs the same as /volleyfire is now.
Strategy III: /volleyfire. 1.75 dmg, but other than that, the same as it is now (reduced HAM costs, though).
Strategy II: Extended steady aim. This steady aim holds for around ten-fifteen seconds. HAM costs the same as /steadyaim is now.
Strategy I: /steadyaim. Same old, but with reduced HAM costs.
I would like to see more passives. If we keep the Passives to Low there not worth anything. If we make them to high then people will pick up the class just for the passives and not because they want to be a Squad Leader. I would say a good level would be 1/2 of what you can get if you picked up say a pistoleer or Rifleman or tera Kasi, etc. This Makes it unthinkable for powerplayers and solo's,but Ideal for those few of us that want to be a Squad Leader. This would also help Doctors, Medics, Dancers, Artisan's, and others get a chance to enjoy combat with a littleless risk.
Passives I would like to see added: Dodge, Counter Attack, Block, Defensive Acuity, Alertness, Combat Equilibrium. These are all something I can see the SL adding to the group for various reasons.
hmm SL currently have an ability that equalize all wound of all members as an active ability, why not have an equvalient of that ability except it equalize all ham damage of all members within a group. kind like zarbrak racial ability.
Passives are fantastic when they're noticeable. A 33-50% effect on a skill mod at master level would put SL's on the highly desired list.
I agree though that it is the use of active skills which make combat interesting for the SL. The new xp scheme makes it practical for SL's to concentrate on using their class abilities rather than trying to outshine the pure combat templates in order to level which is great, but the skills we have are so limited in application and generally unweildy and impractical that doing so is more an act of roleplaying than an actual contribution to a team. There are a number of SL skills wihch could be completely removed and replaced with interesting active skills, which would only help SL's as well as group dynamics in general. (Boost Morale and /sysgroup come to mind for instance).
I would actually like to see more "passive active abilities". These would be abilites that are passive to the SL (ie, they dont have to do anything to activate them) but provide all squad members with abilities. This would include things like role designation/unlock abilities for professions as outlined in my post on leadership in the official thread, things like cover fire, flanking, and other special abilities that the SL would allow all group members to use (kind of like giving all members an elite version of the ranged support tree from marksman) or any number of other ideas dreamed up elsewhere.
The only active ability a SL should have, should involve his voice. This would include communications, assigning targets, and inspiring the people under him (mind damage healing, BF healing, or mind buffs, I dont care which, but SL deserves one of them) All other abilities not related to those things should be passive (such as the melee/ranged defense bonuses or "passive active abilities" that other players use.
forget steady aim and give us passive accuracy MODs fo reveryone.
i thinkw e could use a few more passives, liek extra terrain neg, defenses, defense accuity, and accuracy MODs.
but overall its the active commands we lack.
Thulium's 4 posts in regards to each specific branch have all my thoughts.
I'm sorry NarCranor, but I can't disagree more!
I worked hard in Combat, Survival, and Exploration in order to become a Squad Leader and I do not wish it to pay off in a gameplay style that is little more than a glorified cheerleader. If you want to lead Squads in this manner, there are three professions that fill this role nicely: Dancer,Musician, and Chef. They can HAVE /sysgroup for all I care, Squad Leader is a Combat Hybrid profession like Smuggler, Bounty Hunter and Combat Medic and we should have abilities that reflect this.
I would say we are NOT like BHs... we are very much like CM's though... in that we are a support class that has combat experience.
SL is a very different class, compared to any other. For example Chefs craft very different items than weaponsmiths, or armorsmiths, but they are still crafters. Squad leaders rely on other players to be usefull.
So a balance of passive and active abilites will support not only the other players in the squad but the Leader themselves.
And I am pretty sure that the group buffs do not affect the SL and that is how it should be.
Seeing as we get NO special weapon Cert. NO additional attack specials. And a very LARGE penalty of having to be the leader of the group. And it doesn't seem like they intend on giving us any of the above. I'de have to move for the idea that instead of giving us new weapons or new atatcks, we should (as Squad Leaders) be able to make everyone in the group MUCH better at using their weapon of choice. Wether this comes in the form of massive(and by massive I mean massive, not +25 at MSL - more like +50-60 at MSL) bonuses to accuracy, speed, HAM regen rates. Or in the form of active abilites such as Steady Aim(if it worked). This is what needs to happen IMO.
I've seen an inumerable amount of great ideas for active abilities on these forums. But I also believe we need some serious bonuses to accuracy, damage, and speed. With the new changes to Krayts - things like this are needed.
Maybe passive bonuses worked into active abilities? As in say you have to use /Steadyaim inorder to supply your group with a massive accuracy bonus. Or a /consatntfire to give the speed bonus. Something liek this. An active ability that lasts a good while(2 or 3 minutes?) that give MASSIVE group bonuses. True we need more than simple bonuses. We need the ability to /breakcontant, and some of the other abilities mentioned. But I believe this system of "active passive" bonuses should be our core.
And to reiterate my point once more when I say MASSIVE bonuses. Thats what I mean MASSIVE. +25 is pathetic. +40-60 is something to show off.
I don't want to see MASSIVE bonuses. If we get to big we move from being a support/combat expert to PowerPlayers. I Think if we get alot of small bonuses this will work better. Now the Pistoleers are dodging more, now the Riflemen are blocking more, now the Carbineer is counterattacking more. In a way,with thesmall bonuses stacking with those of other players, making there chosen proffesion seem better when grouped with us. Also I think the group as a whole will seem alot more rugged,with all these small bonuses to Dodge, CounterAttack, Block, Defensive Acuity, Alertness, Combat Equilibrium.
Take a look at Tera Kasi, at base he is around +60 meele def, and +45 Range def.As it is now,we get a +30meele and +30ranged.Which is about 1/2. Think about this now,if we had Massive bonuses. Howare we explaning to the Artisan how to guard him self as well as a Tera Kasi. When he has littleto no combat training? I think that Tera Kasishould still be able to woop our poor little Artisan's butt. But if he had Defenses as extenive as a Tera Kasi the fight would drag on for much longer then it should. Just because were great leaders,this should not make our squadimpervious.
And remember alot of people are pushing for the pasives to stack with our own combat style reguradless if were the leader or not, making us much more of a combative force. As far as weapon accuracy goes, I agree we need some, but not all that much, maybe a +20-30 by Master level. As far as weapon speed goes, I don't think that is entirely needed. Say I have chosen to be a pistoleer and I duel with another pistoleer, we have trained the same, we are both master pistoleers why would I be faster? But I will still when because of my always active passive squad leader buffs.