Squad Leader Archive

Finally done! Took me forever, but here it is, all shiny and sparkly. Let me know what you think and post any changes you would reccomend. I will be officially sending it Friday. Please remember this is a consensus. Please PM me or post with any comments, suggestions, or opinions. I will not enter further quotes at this time, so please don't ask for that! I have placed them in both Word and HTML format. If for some reason you have a problem opening it, PM me with your e-mail address. It is too long to post here, it will get cut off - that's why I had to place it in my briefcase.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/vemnox

...click SOE Correspondent Report...

I am aware of the problem with my briefcase. Apparently Yahoo! changed it to where you have to be a premium member to hold files now. Give me a minute to find someplace else to host it.

Try either of the following 2 links:

http://www.geocities.com/vemnox/SLReport.htm

http://www.geocities.com/vemnox/SLReport.doc

I know Geocities will reach its bandwith fast, so if anyone has any webspace they could host it, please move it there. If you can't access it in the first place to move it, PM me with your e-mail and I will send it.

http://pawn.mosstrahteks.com/SLReport.htm

A couple comments after a quick first read:

- List our original top 5 issues somewhere at the top of the post. This supports"the total disregard for our first Top 5 issues (nothing even remotely resembles or mentions that list)," statement you make.

- Second bullet under New Ability Consensus (In Formation – A highly requested ability of the SL community. While many see the ability as pointless, role-players will get satisfaction out of this. Its actual combat value is simply marginal, though.) When most of us ask for formations, I think we're expecting them to work like stances. i.e. Putting the squad in formation would grant them bonuses for certain abilities (and penalties for others). It might look cool to arrange people in a physical formation, but that's just gravy. Actually, without some sort of bonus, formations would be a detriment to the squad - right now the best formation to be in is the tight mob - there's no LOS issues with shooting through your buddy, and it keeps everyone in reach of the medics.

- The last bullet under Squad Leader Issues (The SL XP formula is still redundant to what the SL actually does.) Replace "redundant" with "contrary."

- I'd suggest linking to one or more "suggestion" or "vision" threads to give them more references for the types of abilities we've come up with that we think are appropriate for the profession. There are probably 50+ of these threads, and many of them aren't very good suggestions... maybe someone can summarize the best of the best in a new thread?

agreed Tach... if In Formation doesn't give some actual tactical/statistical bonus, I don't see it EVER being used.

The only skills I see that will be worthwhile are speed march and perhaps the off/def stances (as long as it isn't too tedious to employ).

We need some sort of Ham reduction for our group members... either passive (VERY slight)or as a command (more noticeable)

I don't think you should sent the part about our ideas. Frankly, our ideas are very weak. We need something more substantial. We need them to give us something more substantial. We do not have master level abilities. When you compare us with other advanced classes our abilities may look nice on the second tier. The new ones you've proposed...do you want to climb a line just to get those? Another bunch of novice or low tier bunch of abilities. There is NOTHING proposed anywhere that would stand up in tier III and above. That's my biggest issue.

Oh, and I'm not quoted enough.

DiLune,

I need actual quotes, comments, editorials, essays, etc. I formulate the community's ideas into a report, not my own. So if you just say "add something about something someplace" it leaves me going "Uhhh..."

Was I not clear enough up there? We have no master level skills. Nothing proposed is master level. You are going to send them a list of fluff. Great "hey we came up with this...can we please have all sorts of stuff you shouldn't have to take Squad Leader to get? You know, stuff you should get as a group leader." I'm real proud that we came up with that stuff.

Why not say "Give us mind heal at the master level."

or "Give us an active ability that makes the group 100% dodge for 10 sec but has a 5 min timer for re-use."

Lets ask for something REAL! Something that will make people go WOW, I need to get level 4 this! or I need to master SL. Paint target...I'm supposed to take a squad leader skill to get that?

and the last part was a joke since I was only quoted once.

I think a passive HAM cost reducer, that significantly increases by tier ... 10, 20, 30, 40% would be a big WOW alone.

Sorry for contributing my 2 cents. I'll leave the community now, just as Volatris before me.

CaptainVemnox you have done an EXCELLENT job at compiling numerous quotes on the board. But it’s INSANE to think that submitting such a long document will help anything. I can’t believe they will EVER read it, I could barley read it. Your reply is trying to make a point and then staple that point home. Why will this NOT work with the devs? First off they think they we are idiots and that some one will complain no matter what they do. If they disagree NONE of our voices will matter. AND if they think that their ideas are getting crapped on they will do NOTHING. And LITERALLY NOTHING will happen with Squad Leader for the next 6 months to a year. There current suggestions are months and months and months from being anywhere I can see. It is much better to SET OUT THE MAIN points as CONCERNS or SUGGESTIONS and let THEM THINK OF ANSWERS. I’ve reviewed ALL THE SUBMISSIONS and they NEVER take the suggestions from the forums. (They may have been ordered for legal reasons not to.) I think the 5 points below summarize the main concerns and is in the FORMATTING that was COMMON with the professions that ‘SEEMED’ the get attention. Your report is WAY, WAY, WAY TO LONG. It would be GREAT is SOE was interested in community dialog, they are not and I really recommend injecting simple ideas at them in a NON-COMBATIVE WAY.


Concerns about the SL new skill proposal.

#1) New Powers for Squad Leaders don't add any new ABILITIES.
The majority are triggers for actions that players SHOULD be taking anyway.

#2) New Powers for Squad Leaders only help POOR PLAYERS.
As a player gets more experience they learn when to shoot and not to shoot. What do the SL abilities offer advanced players?

#3) New Powers for Squad Leaders offer a LESS RITCH experience to group members.
With new commands a group member’s entire combat process may be automated for them. One wonders what is left to do for members of Squad Leader Group.

#4) New Powers for Squad Leaders still offer a VERY POOR return on SKILL POINTS.
For the number of skill points spent, simply triggering abilities OTHER players should be taking anyway. You can get 95% there with a simple /sysgroup macro.

#5) New Powers for Squad Leaders will still leave SL’s as not-coveted group members.
In fact people may NOT want a controlling SL and they will become LESS desirable to have in groups. It's much more important to have other professions in a Squad than Squad Leaders. For example; A Combat Medic has a large effect on the outcome of battles. Doctors with buffs and revive make a massive difference. Creature Handlers with large pets provide large tanks. Rangers with the big camps allow for quick healing. Etc …