Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Why Squad Leader is the perfect choice for Healing Mind
Here's a repost of a PM I sent Holocron regarding Squad Leader Mind healing.
Holo, here's a proposal for mind healing that actually might work out well in being both immersive and in being largely unexploitable...
Have Squad Leaders heal mind. I know you're aware of this idea and it's been kicked around a bit on the forums... but here's why, with a few adjustments to already existing systems, mind healing for Squad Leaders works out *really well*.
Squad Leaders already have the unique limitation of not being able to use their abilities unless they are the *actual* leader of a group. And their abilities only work on the actual members of the group.
Now by having Squad Leaders heal mind (trading a bit of their mind to heal a good chunk of one of their member's mind pool - or healing all of their members' mind pools as an advanced ability), you prevent the Squad Leader from having his own mind healed by another Squad Leader in the group, for infinite mind heals (the same problem medics would have had, if they had mind healing ability). The Squad Leader system is perfect for preventing this exploit.
Now add the limitation that the Squad Leader can't heal his own mind... *and* that a Squad Leader can't be mind healed for 30-60 seconds after he's last lead a group (with the reasoning that he's too jaded to immediately take orders or pep talks from another leader, having just done the same himself)... you can eliminate any other possible Squad Leader mind heal exploits. They can't abuse the /makeleader to heal each other indefinitely, and they can't even switch into another group for a quick mind heal. This anti-exploit system fits in elegantly with the existing group and Squad Leader mechanics.
And in the end, you end with the Squad Leader being the final, unhealable mind pool for a group... which then translates directly into mind pool healing *and* indirectly into action and health healing by way of group medics. This gives SL's a pivotal role in supporting a group and keeping it going... and doesn't upset any balance there might be now.
Of course, Squad Leaders will now be targetted by snipers and riflemen... but this nicely parallels the real military strategy of picking off leaders in order to install chaos in a squad. Backup Squad Leaders in a group will also now become useful, in the advent that the main leader becomes incapacitated.
To take advantage of and encourage such player behavior, Squadleaders should also be given additional abilities to further their usefulness:
/makebackupleader -- this ability will allow a squad leader to choose who becomes temporary group leader when he himself becomes incapacitated. He can assign a backup leader to keep the mind healing going. Temporary leadership is granted only so long as the real leader is out of action. Temporary leadership should not grant any Squad Leader XP to the backup leader, lest it encourage the backup from allowing his real leader to lie around incapacitated so he can rack up Squad Leader XP.
Any Squad Leader XP that the backup gains should probably be only from healing the mind pool of the downed Squad Leader, and he should probably have something like 10 seconds after the Squad Leader is back in business to finish his heals and to patch the Squad Leader's mind pool up before transfer of command takes place again, preventing him from any additional healing.
Every Squad Leader in a group should have the ability to assign a backup, even if he's not the actual leader... so that in the advent that he too is incapacitated when acting as a backup, leadership will chain down to who he's selected in the heirarchy.
/takecommand -- this can be used either in conjuction with /makebackupleader, left out, or implemented by itself. /takecommand should allow a Squad Leader to temporarily take command of the squad while his real leader is incapacitated. It should act like /makebackupleader, except that it's initiated from the backup's end.
Hope these suggestions are somewhat useful. I think with a few right tweaks, the SL class makes the perfect choice for mind healing, and has the perfect mechanisms and limitations to make the ability viable, believable, and unabusable for the profession.
Andanother PM detailingadditional thoughts on how this works out with other professions:
Holo, here are a few other thoughts regarding Squad Leader healing and how they impact certain classes in regards to game balance and their intended roles.
Having mind healing be unique to Squad Leader works perfectly alongside the Bounty Hunter. Bounty Hunters are supposed to be the best when it comes to one-on-one combat. Them having Eye Shot and being able to hit mind makes them so in one on one PvP situations... since no one can heal their own mind by themselves under the proposed system. But add a Squad Leader to the group, then all bets are off. This matches perfectly with the intended role of the BH to be man hunters... but not necessarily also the best bar none in group combat.
Carbineers were supposed to be a sort of group equalizer with their supression and posture change shots... but since the 30 second posture change timer (which renders their supression fire even more ineffectual), they really don't add much to group combat in any way. Fixing this is important, but Squad Leaders and mind healing would also make grouped enemies a whole different field from solo enemies for the Bounty Hunter. And the BH can be kept feared in the special case of one on one combat, without them being so overpowered that they dominate all forms of combat.
Pistoleers can then be allowed to be slighty more effective at pistols than BH's. Carbineers can be allowed to be slightly better at carbines, likewise. But the BH with the ability to target (unhealable in solo) mind *with* fast firing weapons like pistols renders them the most effective in one-on-one situations.
Riflemen can also target mind, but with their long shot delays, will still be outclassed by BH's in one on one situations, as they should be. The only thing I'm unsure about is how to make riflemen as powerful as BH's and other ranged classes against a group... but not as powerful as a BH against solo threats or when facing a BH himself, since both target mind.
-Al
only entertainers should be able to heal mind. period. otherwise entertainers and rifleman have no purpose. rifleman have some restrictons (they take more melee damage, their guns are horrid up close) to make up for the fact that they have a lot of attacks that hit the un-healable except by entertainers mind pool. you let some combat class do that and hardly anyone will ever take up entertainer except for a few role players and why be rifleman? your one big advanatge is no advanatge.
I am a Squad leader, rifleman and just recently had to surrender my entertainer skills for more points.
Entertainers should still have a very important function if this change gets implemented: battle fatigue. I would suggest that in order to do these mind heals, a squad leader should take some immediate battle fatigue, andeach team member should also take a little battle fatigue each time a mind heal is performed on them. This would fit into immersion, in that in order to focus his team, the squad leader would be making an immense effort of concentration and leadership, and each team member would likewise be exherting such focus as tomake the effortmentally exhausting. This would mean that these mind heal solutions cannot go on indefinitely, and in turn INCREASE the importance of entertainers, since a squad that has been in the field wouldrackup quite a bit of battle fatigue.
Just a suggestion to alleviate the obvious complaint opportunity for entertainer classes when discussing the possibility that squad leaders get mind heal abilities.
-Sharkun Litestep
Squad Leader/Rifleman/Heavy Swordsman
Bria/Rori/ORT Valley
As a medic (and ex-squad leader), I agree that squad leader is probably the place for some sort of mind boosting skills. I'm just not convinced that mind healing is the ultimate answer. Mind buffs would be good. Increases to the willpower and focus stats would be good (faster regen so less downtime). *Maybe* relatively minor heals (in the 100-250 range perhaps?). If anyone gets the ability to heal 1000+ mind in a pop like medics can already do to action and health, you'll make PvP combat a lot less interesting as everything can be insta-healed with the right group mix.
why all this talk about SLs healing? thats what medics and entertainers are for. i think the mind thing and fatigue only working in camps/cantina to promote role playing there is brilliant. dont change a good thing.
instead what SLs should do is be able to have the effect of not getting hit as much or taking less damage. if u require a "real-world" explanation for that, u can say the SL know how to make effective use of cover, resulting in fewer big wounds/hits. besides its more "star-warsy anyway" ever watch a Star wars fight scene? No one can hit a **edit** thing, even the stormtroopers. in SWG, you hardly ever miss.
thus make the current SL passive def bonuses work--less chance to get hit and/or damage reduction. you can call the ability defensive fire tactics or something..... this provides a valuable benefit without intruding on others' skills. you could also have a HAM-draining spec defensive ability that allows you to give a really good defensive bonus to 1 selected target at a time for x number of seconds.
ohyeah, i also have some chef skills, dont make their buffs (or spices for that matter) less valuable by giving the SL the ability to increase someones focus/willpower (which is what u do in effect when u have this improved mind regen idea)
im not saying this for my benefit. i just mean, ive played almost all these classes and what your suggesting will hurt them a lot when there are other good idea for SLs that wont affect others adversley.
The reason that there is discussion about SL healing mind is because there is current;y no way for the mind pool to be defended or replenished during combat. I also think that it plays well into the role of the SL. Since mind is related to Focus andWillpower a Squad leader can aid these stats by boosting his team's morale of focusing their attack.
The suggestion has been tossed around before in previous threads. I like the idea of some sort of mind pool buff or regen, but there needs to be a penalty. I like the idea of Battle Fatigue accumulating on the SL or spread across the group. I also agree that a squad leader who is not in charge should not be able to heal the primary leader. I am not to keen on the /makebackupleader suggestion. If a second squad leader is going to step in, then it should be discussed in the group battle plan, or the primary should name the new leader before he is incapactitated, as would happen in RL combat.
I also suggest that the SL cannot heal mind wounds and of course no Battle fatigue. This would limit is contribution to something that is only useful during combat, and keeps entertainers as the only true mind healers. The point of this is to provide a balance to the HAM and bring in a force that might help turn the battle...keeping troops conscious long enough to turn the enemy. This has always seemed to me like a very good way to provide SL with a way to fit his/her role and provide the group with a special ability that is useful and unique.
Occamz ->Tarquinas (finally moving up the SL tree)
Excluding PvP for a moment, the reason there is so much talk of Squad Leaders healing the Mind pool can be summed up in one simple example:
In a group of 10, against a tough lair, my group had 3 very capable combat medics. It is very frustrating then, that when we got some adds from a nearby lair, we all died. Why, you might ask? Every single person in the group was incapacitated by their MIND bar.
Doesn't that seem a little skewed to you? We have 3 medics, working furiously to keep us alive, and then we all suddenly keel over because we are too mentally exhausted to continue. (And ironically, the Medics, who use their mind bar to heal, were the last to die. I think one or two actually got away.)
When you are fighting monsters that do 200 points of damage through your armor, you dread the 3-5 random hits that will eventually incapacitate you because they are unhealable.
As for PvP, I think the point ZOG makes about Bounty Hunters is a good one. Their Eye Shot should be devastating against solo targets, thats what it is for. But, if in a group, the Mind pool can be healed in the same way that the other pools can (perhaps to a lesser extent, maybe 50%.) then BHs will be easily taken out by any 3-man (or larger) squad with an SL in command (well, hopefully. Knockdown+dizzy is still pretty powerful.)
Also, for all of you saying that this will detract from the usefulness of entertainers.. Uhm, I don't know about you, but I go to entertainers to get my BF and Mind WOUNDS healed. How is a Squad Leader healing Mind DAMAGE going to effect that at all? For Mind DAMAGE, I just sit around and wait for it to regen, it isn't worth a trip to town.
I, too, am a squad leader who opposes mind healing - damage or wounds. Our purpose in the group should be to givean edge over encounters, NOT enable the group to become non-stop battle machines. Our presence could allowbattle fatigue clearing by entertainers in camps, perhaps. Let's give those dancing marksmen and artisans a place in the field, huh?
Sundown6 wrote:
Now by having Squad Leaders heal mind (trading a bit of their mind to heal a good chunk of one of their member's mind pool - or healing all of their members' mind pools as an advanced ability), you prevent the Squad Leader from having his own mind healed by another Squad Leader in the group, for infinite mind heals (the same problem medics would have had, if they had mind healing ability). The Squad Leader system is perfect for preventing this exploit.
Now add the limitation that the Squad Leader can't heal his own mind... *and* that a Squad Leader can't be mind healed for 30-60 seconds after he's last lead a group (with the reasoning that he's too jaded to immediately take orders or pep talks from another leader, having just done the same himself)... you can eliminate any other possible Squad Leader mind heal exploits. They can't abuse the /makeleader to heal each other indefinitely, and they can't even switch into another group for a quick mind heal. This anti-exploit system fits in elegantly with the existing group and Squad Leader mechanics.
And in the end, you end with the Squad Leader being the final, unhealable mind pool for a group... which then translates directly into mind pool healing *and* indirectly into action and health healing by way of group medics. This gives SL's a pivotal role in supporting a group and keeping it going... and doesn't upset any balance there might be now.
-Al
The problem with this scenario is now the SL can not be a melee tank class. He can only be a ranged combat profession. There are few enough SL as it is. SL'sneed to have an ability that everyone in the group benefitsincluding himself.
I think if SL get some mind boosting abilities it should not be like a medic's. No mind stim packs, or full heals. Just increased willpower/'mind regen', 'increased focus'/'decreased mind specials costs' and a larger mind pool to start with.
This will not make a group a non stop killing machine. A good sniper can still kill you, but it might take him a bit longer. Hopefully it will be meaningfull enough that melee's can tank, which is the big crisis as far as I can see right now.
I think that the Squad Leader in fact would be a good choice for Mind Damage heals, as already pointed out. Thier skills are only available if they are the Leader of a team, and that means that there can only be one possible Mind Healer at a time. With some sort of Leader change delay, timer, or other mechinism in place on th abilityto prevent the infinite heal syndrome that multiple Medics presented, it looks good.
Entertainers will and should remain the only means to heal Mind Wounds and Battle Fatigue. Entertainers do not heal Mind Damage ( they heal Mind Wounds, major difference ) right now for any significant affect, so the complaint that the Squad Leader would be interfering with thier specialtyis moot.
Boosting Mind is not something that should be done. Right now that is the area of th Dancer and Musician with thier 30 min Mind buffs, and the Chef, who crafts Mind buffing products.
I'm even for the idea that the Mind Damage heals should cause more Battle Fatigue to both the Squad Leader and the troops, as in essence it is the Leader rallying and pushing the soldiers past thier limits when they are already going to collapse.
As long as the possible situation of infinite Mind Damage heals is carefully approached and every angle looked at to prevent it, this would be an ideal solution to a major game breaking situation, the lack of Mind Damage heals.
I.