Squad Leader Archive
Thread: Squad Leader and the World of Tomorrow: Issues and Ideas
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irott
Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:54 am
#1
Since JTL is getting close to launch, it means we are that much closer to the Combat Upgrade andultimately the Squad Leader revamp. With this in mind, our community needs to pull together and come up with a list of ideas, thoughts, exploits, issues, opinions and anything else that relates to our profession. Please keep in mind that combat will be changing in ways unknown to you, so don't base everything off of what you currently know. On the other hand, I want to gather as much information from you guys as possible, so even though you don't know what the Combat Upgradehas in store, post these issues anyway.
What I don't want are rewritten skill trees, thats something that comes later. All I want are your ideas and issues.
This list, along with the In Concept thread, will allow me to provide a well organized document to the developers.
So please post anything, even if someone else has posted a similar idea, give your version.
Thank you and good luck.
/salute
Message Edited by irott on 10-20-2004 12:03 AM
Blackferne
Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:10 am
#2
Stuff I'd like to see:
1)Better tools for infomation to group. Specifially I would like to be able to set group waypoints to denote phase one, phase two, retreat parts of an attack. Also a special "viewer" that allowed the SL to see the current template of the targeted player. Instead of guessing what an opponent was based on his weapon equipped, title, and badges recieved, I'd rather just hit f7 and see (MFence,Pistol 4040, Marks0400, Brawler0400) This would help in PvP prioritize opposing groups.
2) A special SL weapon. For me its important it actually be a set of ranged weapons (a rifle, a pistol and a carbine) so as not to dictate or encourage the complimentary profession played. Unless its a unique weapon like the e-web thing which no other proffession would help give bonuses to.
3) I like the idea of Forts. I am thinking they exist on three levels (novice, somewhere in one of the trees, and master) and that it provides additional bonuses to offense and defense. If the forts had hit points so they could be destroyed that would be cool too.
4) PanzerGR and Soda_jedi's idea or formations and stance are really good. I really like the idea that we could help guide our troops using formations into battle. (wedge, block, scout- diamond-rear scout) each with different pluses and minuses.
5) TEFs for SL Spam bots. As PanzerGR said, "If you are in, you're in." SL should get the same TEFs as doctors applying heals to Overt players. And if an Overt Player of the opposing faction is in your squad, he doesn't recieve your bonuses or the benefits of your specials.
6) Multi unit enhancements This idea would mean if multiple SLs were working in concert they would compound the bonuses etc. I don't mean like double them, just a little extra. Imagine if you had meta level grouping. It would be like 2 groups meta-grouped would form an "army." and this would add a few extra bonuses +5 to terrain negotiation, +5 to ranged.melee defense, and +5 to weapon speed or something.
7) Make Terrain matter In real life battle elevation matters, line of sight matters etc. Make it important to take the high ground. Currently the only advantage I can see is that you have a faster speed going down hill.
8) Allow for a 2nd in command SL is a ranged support class and I like the idea of volleyvire, but I'd like to appoint a melee soldier in my group(a temp special ability) so he can do a similar command for melee attacks.
9) Gives us combat vehicles I would like to see us with combat enable vehicles so if we wanted to form an armored division we could.
(more to come later when I get more time to think about it)
Message Edited by Blackferne on 10-08-2004 10:19 PM
PanzerGR
Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:51 am
#3
you know most o fmy ideas already Irott.
Ive always been fond of formations and things of that nature that could be fit into mobility to provide grousp with more focus and flexibility for different situations. Going along with that theme is the idea for fortifications. I think that forts/formations allow focus and flexibility to groups.
and i thinkt hat what it all boils down to in essence. SL's should increase the combat effectiveness of their group by a fairly large amount...AND be able to provide a focus to the groupw ith a flexibility to handle any situation.
More passive bonuses on defense
Working skills. Most of the skills we have now are at least decent but they either dont work or dont do enough.
I have always liked the idea of giving SL's one or mroe of the followng as well:
-An SL "overhead map" which allows us to WP places that go to the ENTIRE group. Ine ffect kind of liek rainbow six or SOCOm where you tell your men where to go.
- SL radar jamming equipment...which allows the SL to use a DE-made transmitter which blocks out enemy radar....no one in yor group appears on radar (or possibly not as a red DoT or as an allied-DoT for purposes of PvP)
- SL ability to make a point man and attain a second radar screen based off what the point man sees.
and again ill say FOCUS AND FLEXIBILITY.
SL's should be able to focus their group, every unique part of the group, and the classes unique group roles into a more effective fighting unit. SL's should be able to make sure that every aspect of the group is enhanced and has flexibility and that overall unit cohesion and effectiveness is boosted considerably.
most of my comments are kind of vague and generalized but ive detailed opinions elsewhere. Im sure you caught on Irott and get what im saying about most of this stuff, youve seen me post enough and youve been an SL long enough to know what i mean.
if you want more specifics mail me or something.
Nemo0
Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:06 am
#4
I personally want to see something done with the scout survival requirement. The Ranger forum has come up with some ideas that involve Squad Leaders here (modular camps with slots for fortification like skills gained in the SL tree, this is the most recent posting of an idea that has been around for a long time). I don't visit this forum all that often so I'm not sure if a similar discussion has come up but I thought I'd mention it when I saw this thread. I do like the idea of fortifications in some form or another and just wanted to make sure that this option was seen.
BadMisterFrosty
Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:41 am
#5
Master Profession...................Skill Cost
Bounty Hunter..................................169
Squad Leader..................................135
Teras Kasi Artist...............................92
Squad Leader..................................135
Teras Kasi Artist...............................92
1) The skilpoint cost must be tweaked based on what Squad Leader contribute to groups after the revamp. I would like tokeep the cost butcounterveils them with more benefits.
2) I would like to rather see own formations than only prefabricated by the developer. You could record the position of your group inclusive of line of vision. When you need hit, hit a button and the group forms up exactly you recorded it before.
3)There should be something like acall to troop, where everyone in the group gets an arrow on screen directed to the squadleader.
4) A new camp will be introduced as agather point to heal and rest. It would give additional defensive bonus and hase-webs to be manned by someone. It would take a time to set that camp up in order to avoid players to use that camp too offensive. It should be used to hold tactical spots within larger battles.
5) Squad Leader should be considered the 'real' officers after the GCW-revamp.They would get the ability to use more factionpets than others. Lets say each rank provides a»command level«, which is basically a number. You get additiional points with the squad leader. You can split the command levelto three minor pets or call one better and a minor.
It would be great if an army (~group) would have a certain level of »command points« together, based on each players »command level«. All officers (faction rank) in command [Group Leader] would be able to draw from that level, but only Squad Leader would get the highest level perks. They could split the high command level of the group to three good pets, or use the entire group command level to call the most dangerous perks.
Final Note: I would rather see the Squad Leader go in more the creature handler direction. But without the variety and additional faction point costs, there is room left for the other stuff as well. 
.
Deplomatic
Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:41 am
#6
1. option when your overt to make other pepole overt
2. fix the squad leader xp (make it much more challanging)
3. remove sl bots and repeating macro's
this is my wish list
Yeraze
Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:55 am
#7
1) I'ld like to see the Survival Requirement have a point (Fortifications, Bunkers, Landing Zones, etc)
2) I'ld like to see better Targeting controls, especially a /sysgroup type function to place markers visible by the entire team on targets (useful for PvE vs Creatures).
3) typical Military Squad procedure stuff - Forward Recon & Intelligence Gathering (Improved /examine, long range binoculars), Orbital Target bombardment (paint a target, wait 30s, then BOOM), etc. Things that would make us more useful in forward planning of large-scale operations.
4) We need to be more important in Base Takedowns. Novice Squad Leader & the ability to select "Activate Overload" from a radial is all it requires. If all it takes it the ability to hit a button on a keypad, then anyone should be able to do it. It needs to require more than novice (Master perhaps), and it needs to have some type of puzzle or consumable attached to it.
5) In Spontaneous PvP we need to be useful too. The current passive bonuses are good for this, but we could use some more (like some basic Damage Mitigation or increased Defense vs State Effects).
6) More content that actually requires a group, instead of 20 solo'ers.
2) I'ld like to see better Targeting controls, especially a /sysgroup type function to place markers visible by the entire team on targets (useful for PvE vs Creatures).
3) typical Military Squad procedure stuff - Forward Recon & Intelligence Gathering (Improved /examine, long range binoculars), Orbital Target bombardment (paint a target, wait 30s, then BOOM), etc. Things that would make us more useful in forward planning of large-scale operations.
4) We need to be more important in Base Takedowns. Novice Squad Leader & the ability to select "Activate Overload" from a radial is all it requires. If all it takes it the ability to hit a button on a keypad, then anyone should be able to do it. It needs to require more than novice (Master perhaps), and it needs to have some type of puzzle or consumable attached to it.
5) In Spontaneous PvP we need to be useful too. The current passive bonuses are good for this, but we could use some more (like some basic Damage Mitigation or increased Defense vs State Effects).
6) More content that actually requires a group, instead of 20 solo'ers.
Soda_Jedi
Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:39 pm
#8
I'm always in favor of a system that would make large scale PvP not only feasable, but easy to control as well. I know this covers a more broad aspect of the game rather than focus squarely on Squad Leader but if we could have a system where a person could be elected to control the army in a battle (not necessarily a squad leader but someone of a high faction rank [remember, squad leaders are still grunts in the army]), of which she or he would then delegate waypoints to the various squad leaders under her command. The squad leaders would take it from there.
Again formations, combat modes, and the like would help differentiate the varying roles that each squad leader and their groups play during a battle. At least there would be some kind of strategy element to it, that is not unlike placing chess pieces on a chess board.
Morecomming when I get back from work 
PanzerGR
Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:46 pm
#9
Deplomatic wrote:
1. option when your overt to make other pepole overt
2. fix the squad leader xp (make it much more challanging)
3. remove sl bots and repeating macro's
this is my wish list
agreed on those points
especially 2 and 3. I was at the deathwatch bunker tonight with a group of abotu 12 people.
I received SEVENTY........yes...SEVENTY THOUSAND! thats a 7 followed by 4 zeros..... worth of XP from a SINGLE battle droid
that is ABSOLUTELY insane.....and honestly based on that i have NO idea how the xp is based now. I cant say its a cumulation of all the combat/weapons xp or anything liek it used to be...i mean ya got at most 4k of weapons XP for the thing.
SEVENTY THOUSAND sl xp off oen mob.....i just about sh1t my pants. It's probably been liek that for a whiel but i just now noticed it because i spent SL points at the village and was actually able to gain SL xp for the first time in like 10 months.
MailekEOC
Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:40 pm
#10
Some things I would like to see:
1. Ability to grant overt if you have been overt for at least 5 minutes.
2. Improved passive defenses
3. Com Link (certified at Novice SL) which serves as a multi purpose tool used for radar jamming,
artillery bombardment. This would be crafted by Engineers.
4. Improved /sys command
5. Group waypoint ability and paint target.
6. One fortifaction or two max so our survival requirement is worth it. (No tree dedicated to it)
If in the new HAM revamp there is now ability meters or something this would be a suggestion for a skill:
Skill that regenerates the ability bars at a faster rate (either as a rally type skill or perhaps a passive that gets better as you advance through SL)
Pretty much sums up what I would like.
/salute
1. Ability to grant overt if you have been overt for at least 5 minutes.
2. Improved passive defenses
3. Com Link (certified at Novice SL) which serves as a multi purpose tool used for radar jamming,
artillery bombardment. This would be crafted by Engineers.
4. Improved /sys command
5. Group waypoint ability and paint target.
6. One fortifaction or two max so our survival requirement is worth it. (No tree dedicated to it)
If in the new HAM revamp there is now ability meters or something this would be a suggestion for a skill:
Skill that regenerates the ability bars at a faster rate (either as a rally type skill or perhaps a passive that gets better as you advance through SL)
Pretty much sums up what I would like.
/salute
xulEnix
Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:54 am
#11
We don't really need a new camp as mentioned above; if we're forced to take the scout to survival 4 line, we might as well just make the camps USEFUL. For instance, as mentioned numerous times, Battle Fatigue healing. At novice SL, any type of camp that a SL places grants a +10 to BF healing, meaning BF is healed at 10% the rate it would be in a cantina, sure its slow but at least its something. But then it would increment by 10 for the next 4 boxes (whichever branch) and then another 10 at master, therefore a master SL will have +60 BF healing, so if it would take you 10mins in a cantina watching/listening to an ent to heal your BF, it will take you 14mins in a SL camp. That way you don't take away from the ents by having to bypass going to a cantina, and you give the ents more of an incentive to go out and check out other stuff in the game. Plus, ONLY BF (and mind of course) can be healed in a SL camp, at a reduced rate only for BF, if you want ent mind buffs you HAVE to go to a cantina.
Now, if a ranger is in the group, and he/she places the camp, you could have the same BF healing apply as long as the SL is leading the group. Plus, also mentioned numerous times, fortification. Since ranger camps are supposedly be able to repel agro, having a SL apply some type of fortification, basically defensive abilities, will make things that much safer. The camp itself will not be a destroyable structure, but any type of fortification/extra thing added to a rangers camp by a SL can be.
A SL weapon only would be nice, I mean we do have to get ranged 4 in marksman, so we may as well put it to good use.
Passive defenses do need to be increased, and I think a defense vs. knockdown would be a neat addition, at master level. Adding blind state removal to /formup would be cool too, seeing as how we are supposed to strengthen the groups resolve; get them to focus on the objectives; make them all work expertly together; rally them forward; and keep them relatively safe(er), and able to do more damage as a whole rather than individually. The rest is just tweaking the existing commands like /rally to not prevent people from healing, sitting, harvesting, etc. for one and giving a more noticable difference in using it. Steadyaim should have a nice bonus to accuracy incl melee/ranged/thrown weapons thereby hitting the target 9 times out of 10 even if they try a counterattack or dodge manauvere against us, and /volleyfire something like a +25 to hit bonus against all mobs, targetting a specific pool, with a high % chance to wound(50+) like a critical hit.
Can't think of much for the terrain negotiation atm, but thats good enough for now. There are lots of great ideas from many of you, and i'm just adding my own thoughts to the mess As for NPC handling, not too fond of that myself, but maybe only at master level in case you need 2 people to use a weapon or vehicle and you don't have anyone else in your group that can do it or something.
Oh yeah, calling in for extra support like an air strike, or an evac, would be cool too
Now, if a ranger is in the group, and he/she places the camp, you could have the same BF healing apply as long as the SL is leading the group. Plus, also mentioned numerous times, fortification. Since ranger camps are supposedly be able to repel agro, having a SL apply some type of fortification, basically defensive abilities, will make things that much safer. The camp itself will not be a destroyable structure, but any type of fortification/extra thing added to a rangers camp by a SL can be.
A SL weapon only would be nice, I mean we do have to get ranged 4 in marksman, so we may as well put it to good use.
Passive defenses do need to be increased, and I think a defense vs. knockdown would be a neat addition, at master level. Adding blind state removal to /formup would be cool too, seeing as how we are supposed to strengthen the groups resolve; get them to focus on the objectives; make them all work expertly together; rally them forward; and keep them relatively safe(er), and able to do more damage as a whole rather than individually. The rest is just tweaking the existing commands like /rally to not prevent people from healing, sitting, harvesting, etc. for one and giving a more noticable difference in using it. Steadyaim should have a nice bonus to accuracy incl melee/ranged/thrown weapons thereby hitting the target 9 times out of 10 even if they try a counterattack or dodge manauvere against us, and /volleyfire something like a +25 to hit bonus against all mobs, targetting a specific pool, with a high % chance to wound(50+) like a critical hit.
Can't think of much for the terrain negotiation atm, but thats good enough for now. There are lots of great ideas from many of you, and i'm just adding my own thoughts to the mess
As for NPC handling, not too fond of that myself, but maybe only at master level in case you need 2 people to use a weapon or vehicle and you don't have anyone else in your group that can do it or something.Oh yeah, calling in for extra support like an air strike, or an evac, would be cool too
PanzerGR
Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:33 am
#12
MailekEOC wrote:
Some things I would like to see:
3. Com Link (certified at Novice SL) which serves as a multi purpose tool used for radar jamming,
A jamming device at novice would be too powerful.
it should be higher up in the tree or possibly at master.
Otherwise you risk non-melee proffs taking novice SL just so they can go around undetected by radars. It shouldn tbe something that you can get for just 6 skillpoints.
MailekEOC
Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:49 pm
#13
Sorry I wasn't clear enough on that point, yes you wouldn't get the radar jamming feature at novice, it would be higher up the tree. What could be done is maybe each time you would use a group waypoint which should be available at novice it would drain some of the com link's power supply, which you would just recharge when it starts to get low. I'm just saying since we are a hybrid profession we should get some sort of certifaction at novice like other elite professions do but not just a weapon like a carbine. If you have ever seen the revamp document that I put together with a lot of the community's ideas in the trees then you would see how this com link would fit into all of this.
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