Smuggler Archive

Ok, so to get Novice Smuggler, you need Unarmed IV and Pistols IV. Two completely different combat skills for a trade that only uses one of the two and is not really a combat trade at heart to begin with. I've never liked the Unarmed need, even moreso since you do not improve in it while climbingSmuggler. Now, with the Space Expansion coming I am rethinking this whole affair. Here is the prerequisite break down....

Current Prerequisites:

Brawler, Unarmed IV - (Not very useful or logical since you do not gain any more skill as you advance)

Marksman, Pistols IV - (Logical and useful)

Original Prerequisites:

Artisan, Engineer IV - (Seemed logical to me since Smugglers craft tools and do technical slicing)

Marksman, Pistols IV

My Initial Plan: (Stated in a thread a long time ago)

Artisan,Business IV - (Logical being that Smugglers are Businessmen, shifty though they may be, with base Artisan to account for crafting tools but without need for expirementation)

Marksman, Pistols IV

My New Plan A: (Taking into account Space Expansion)

Artisan,Business IV

Marksman, Pistols IV

*Pilot, Freighters IV- (If Pilot is a basic trade, and one branch is for freighters/commercial craft. This would mean Smugglers would need more skill points to Master, but would gain mods to piloting skills while climbing Smuggler trees. I honestly believe that if the Smuggler trade gets as good of a revamp as I think we are going to get, I think it very fair that we also pay another 29 skill points to get it.)

My New Plan B: (Taking into account Space Expansion)

*Pilot, Freighters IV- (See above. Simply replace Unarmed for Piloting skills)

*Pilot, Navigation IV - (Insert a 2nd Pilot skill here like Navigation or Manuever Skills. This just adds 14 Skill points added compared toPlan A)

Marksman, Pistols IV

Well, agree, disagree, sign on or flame away...Looking for everyones thoughts.....

Best regards,

Dray

Message Edited by DraysonFarseeker on 05-28-2004 10:39 PM

Two major problems I see with this:

1. Changing of prereq would require existing smugglers to pick up skills that might not have. How would this transition happen? How would you force people to change skills?

2. You require the purchase of SE to be a smuggler. Either that or have even more skills that are useless (Considering non-SE smugglers could even pick up the pilot skills) This is a no-no as you alienate any players that can't or don't want to buy the space expansion (I don't know why, but there will be some).

I don't really like the unarmed tree either, but sadly its probably gonna stay. Plus there has been talk of unarmed skills being added for a revamp thats so so very far away. (Better late then never right?)

Message Edited by Finbar_Azulos on 05-29-2004 07:29 AM

Thanks for the input, and good input it is. Regarding changing the prereqs, you are right that it would be difficult to change the skills that folks already have. Especially for the infamous Triple Master Pistol/Smuggler/TKM. You are right, I do not see a workaround on that point. On your second point, I also was not thinking clearly, you can't force folks to buy the SE (why they hell they wouldn't is a different matter, lol). My alternative to that issue, is to leave prereqs alone and just add some piloting mods to the exsisting Smuggler trees. I just firmly believe that smugglers should have some piloting skills. This would not force anyone to buy the SE or drop any current skills, since it is simply an addition to the skills they already have. Thanks for the constructive critique Finbar, good luck out there.

Best regards,

Dray

Thanks for the correction on those points Phoenix, I looked up where I got that info and I wrote it down wrong anyhow. In the Prima Official Strategy Guide, It lists Unarmed IV, Engr IV and Business IV as prereqs. I had it all wrong, as did the book, lol. I will crawl back into my hole now sheepishly as I await another bright idea that needs more thought before I start barking about it. LOL Thanks for the input.

Best regards,

Dray

Alright, smugs are gonna be in combat, that's a given. Regardless if others want to convince themselves we are not a combat class, the very nature of our business implies confrontation and conflict. I think 2 of our skill trees should be combat oriented, and the other two should be smuggling oriented. Or if not that, at least give our current skill tree some unarmed to go with it. It already gives us melee and ranged mitigation, so why not give us melee and ranged specials? Also, I've thought about this alot, why not give us other shady abilities? As my other post suggested, why not disguises? Or hidden body armor? Or something to cause a distraction while we get outta dodge? So, to return to the subject, if we leave th reqs like they are, at least make justification for the melee line. And for god's sake don't make us pick up crafter skills, some of us do want to spend our entire SP pool, and I don't know a single smug who includes crafting in that. Or, to clarify that, I don't know a single smug who intends to smuggle (taking risks of getting into situations where combat skills might be the only way out) that includes crafting in that.

Actually, by the time I joined beta in beta 3, the requirements were Pistols 4, Unarmed 4, Business 4 and Engineering 4. Yes... all four of them. Of course, smuggler didn't get much test time because it wasn't in the game until nine days before retail release.

---

TheWok wrote:
Actually, by the time I joined beta in beta 3, the requirements were Pistols 4, Unarmed 4, Business 4 and Engineering 4. Yes... all four of them. Of course, smuggler didn't get much test time because it wasn't in the game until nine days before retail release.

---

Wow, 9 days before release. And I thought they really had code freezes and defined implementation project plans like we do in the business world!

Some day game development will catch up with modern project management techniques. (In all defense, the devs have come lightyears beyond where they were, excuse the pun, and I tip my hat to them for their recent impressive run of publishes.)

Well it's not impossible to change the requirements if they change something else I always wanted changed in a more dramatically way then I would have suggested and that's the skill points for a stating novice. Before I went for the tripple master I was doing some music instead of tka and therefore had to spend 45 out of 250 skill points just on starting novice boxes, with almost 20% a ridiculous amount in my eyes. Now a tripple master has to spend 30 skill points on the novice boxes, if they would change the amount from 15 to 5, I would have suggested 10, then we would have 20 points left, a new requirement would then, thanks to lower novice costs, only cost 19 skill points, and this way be possible to obtain. The question would just be do smugglers that already existed before get them for free or do they have to obtain them before they can use their smuggling skills again.

"Ok, so to get Novice Smuggler, you need Unarmed IV and Pistols IV. Two completely different combat skills for a trade that only uses one of the two and is not really a combat trade at heart to begin with. I've never liked the Unarmed need, even moreso since you do not improve in it while climbingSmuggler. Now, with the Space Expansion coming I am rethinking this whole affair. Here is the prerequisite break down....

Current Prerequisites:

Brawler, Unarmed IV - (Not very useful or logical since you do not gain any more skill as you advance)

Marksman, Pistols IV - (Logical and useful)"

Ok I see smuggler as being able to brawl a little, implying that they are rough... but that they rely mostly on their pistol.

If you wantsmuggler to becomparitive with the activities within the game... then you are asking for basically... master artisan as a prereq... since some smugglers make more than craftsmen.

If thats the case, ill take unarmed. An afternoon of beating things up vs... a crafting grind for a few days... and 620 app points to boot.

I see no reason to have Unarmed IV right now. Especially since they moved the Knuckler cert up. Luckily when I grinded out Unarmed I did it way back when you could use a knuckler. Anyhow, since I'm a Master Pistoleer/Master Smuggler, I use pistol 90% of the time (and the other 10% is when I slow-grind rifle, and I'm doing THAT just for a change). I've never gone 'hmm... I'll do unarmed now'. So basically it's a waste of time and skill points. I see in *theory* why we'd have unarmed, but that would only make sense in a realistic sense. In SWG you are never in a position where you *can't* draw your pistol. You never have to *resort* to fighting unarmed. However if Unarmed was pumped upto the point where it was equal to the power of my pistol, then I would have a reason to actually fight unarmed. As it is now, there is no reason.

So... /shrug.

Even though I stole your signature style, I have to disagree with you Ryutek. You said you see the basic professions as introductory level college classes, but just because two people have the same knowledge does not mean they got it the same way, you don't have to have visited a business school to learn how to become a good negotiator. I would agree that a smuggler is no merchant, but he is a businessman.

At the moment, I have the tripple master, since the idea of a smuggler with an office where a vendor sells things is a bit strange to me, I would have no use for it, but before I took up tka, it would certainly have made more sense. The idea that a smuggler should be able to handle in any situation is nice but not realistic, that would require us to have master marksman and master brawler as prerequests because then we would be able to handle any type of weapon. At the end of episode 4, Han used a stormtrooper weapon, not a blaster.

But lets stay with unarmed 4, I see 2 reasons why it doesn't make sense:

1. You can't do anything worth the time with unarmed 4. I once saw two brawlers at a contest, both with unarmed 4, unbuffed and without armor. It took about 20 minutes before you could see some white on their bars because the damage almost all the time was immediatly regenerated.


2. Going by the examples you gave, I can't remember Han or Lando attacking someone unarmed.

As for the engineer, this would make sense in my eyes too, right now, I think the fact that we don't have a clue about technics is the only "excuse" the devs could name for 11% armor slices at master.

The bounty hunters are requesting that certain parts of scout get dropped and the Devs never said it was impossible., just that there were no plans to change them at this time.

Easier in that they can reduce the pre-reqs easily enough and people can just drop those skills at will.

I've never liked the unarmed requirement of smuggler. Business 4 made more sense really. I don't think it will change though now.

As to the comment regarding needing the SE to become a smuggler : In the context of SWG a smuggler is about moving illegal goods from a to b. So yes, I think people should be required to have a ship to be a smuggler.