Smuggler Archive

Fellow Smugglers,

This is a State of the Profession thread that has been created for Thunderheart and the developers. As per SWG-Runesabre's request for a more updated State of the Profession, it is the intention of this document to explain in here the concerns, issues and general status of the Smuggler profession.

Wishes, and minor concerns at the moment.

Highly recommended these be addressed or looked at.

Need to be addressed as soon as possible.

Smuggler in General:

1. *Hot Topic* Smugglers lack a clear view of how the Developers perceive our class. We would like to know this as we have no clue whether the developers ever intended smugglers to smuggler for other players in this game, or if it is just a mini-game as Bounty Hunters have with Investigation. It is hard for us to assist when we do not know the goals and perceptions of the Smuggler profession from the Developers perspective.
   






2. The Game Manual on the main web site still states we need Engineering 4 and Business 4 as pre-requisites. This needs to be updated.
   






3. *Hot Topic* Content, Content and Content. We are smugglers in name only we do not get to smuggle anything. The overwhelming majority of smugglers feel that content is seriously lacking for our profession. We are the only profession that doesn't do what its name indicates or in the manner many feel it should. Especially in regard to smuggling for the player base.
   
   

   
   

   
   
   • "So, Mako, how've you been doing?" Han asked. "How's the business?"
   
   

   
   "Booming, Han," Mako said. "The Empire's restrictions are makin' us all rich, runnin' contraband of all kinds these days. Spice, yeah, that's still big. But we do nearly as well these days smuggling arms, weapons components, power paks, all that kind of thing. Luxuries like perfume and Askajian fabric, too...." A.C. Crispin, The Hutt Gambit, p. 68. Thanks S'per!
   

   
   






4. Smuggler skill boxes have poor / incomplete descriptions of boxes abilities. We should not be a mostly undocumented class. We should see that masters have a better slice range, that there is indeed a faction discount in the box, that type of thing.






5. Many Smugglers are losing hope, for a profession once deemed in need of the most love by the developers several months ago, we are certainly still lacking any feelings we have been given any real attention by the developers to address our concerns. Please give us some impression that we are being listened to and some hope to go along with it for the future with something tangible.

Underworld:

This is our most lacking skill tree; there is almost nothing here that is worth the amount of pistol experience required to progress in it.

1. Languages: Aside from the ability to comprehend lekku movements, there is nothing in this skill box that isn't given to everyone just by having another player teach you what they know in the first 5 minutes of play. If you are a twilek smuggler, this skill is even more pointless.
   






2. Half faction loss in a PvP death: This is very nice for PvP players, but for the players who are not involved in the GCW and are neutral, it does nothing.
   






3. Purchasing faction: With /delegatefaction included in the game. A Smuggler who wants to can sell faction points to other players and make decent money. Again this is only for Smugglers that are members of a GCW faction. Neutral smugglers gain nothing from this skill.
   






4. Underworld 3, Sell Out: This skill is not that useful at this time. If you want to switch factions it's a good way of making a little cash while lowering your old faction. The problem is that how often do most players switch faction. I just don't see many players switching faction that often. This one is of some use to neutrals but most smugglers can make much better money doing destroy missions than they can by selling faction gained by doing low level faction mission which are the only ones neutral smugglers can do. Smugglers have to resign from one faction and lose their rank in that faction, in order to talk to the opposing recruiter and use their "Sell Out" skill.
   
   

   
   You can only sell in blocks of 25fp, and it gives you 0-300c ruinous exchange to be sure,especially when they give you nothing. Not a worthwhile skill as it stands.
   
   

   
   Anyone in the game can much more easily trade any number of FP for XP, which indeed is more valuable anyway.
   
   







5. Some overt smugglers are loosing the option to go covert when they talk to their faction recruiter.
   






6. With the inclusion of the Imperial Crackdown on 2/12/04, Novice Smugglers with “Underworld” abilities will have a 15% chance to evade contraband searches and an additional 15% for each skill box afterwards with Master Smugglers gaining another 20% for a total of 95%. First off, we need to have this skill documented in our skill tree. It isn't right now and needs to be. This is all part of our lack of documentation issues.






7. *Hot Topic* With the Imperial Crackdown, many smuggler feel that this is the beginning of smugglers actually being able to smuggle. It adds a sense of legality and consequences if you do not follow the law. Yet through our impressions of the crackdown, these scans to determine whether or not a player is possessing illegal material is not frequent enough to promote the group function of the smuggler. As of Publish 7, we have seen an increase in these rates, but it is still not enough.
   
   

   
   In short, we are not needed to provide this service, especially as the consequences are not all that daunting, and the frequency still too rare. The appearance of these is also random and out of thin air. This means that unless a smuggler essentially baby-sits a group, knowing if that skill will ever be needed is an issue.







8. *Hot Topic* Many smugglers feel the penalties for being caught with contraband need to be increased. Especially concerning members of the Empire.
   
   

   
   

   
   
   • Overt Imperial Officers: None. All junior officers will salute their superiors.
     
   • High Rank Covert: High Ranking officers will be acknowledged and saluted as directed by the Emperor.
   
   
   • Low Rank: (Identified as having little or no Faction Points spent on Rank): Low Ranking officers found in possession of contraband must pay tribute to the Emperor. Low ranking Imperial soldiers will be given the choice of sacrificing Faction Points or paying a fine.
   
   
   
   

   
   With this system, many players are already switching to the Empire, and using smugglers to purchase their officer commissions in hopes of becoming entirely immune to this system of contraband detection. This essentially makes any marketable skill to smuggle is easily countered by the Imperial Officers immunity. While smugglers are making profit now, when those people reach the rank needed, our service of smuggling is no longer needed as the officer is now immune. This IS happening, as we sell faction points we know it is.
   
   

   
   Why is our class defining skill, being given as a faction perk. To smuggle is to move contraband materials from PointA to PointB without detection. The size of the shipment, whether carried by one person or thirty in a spaceship, is not the deciding factor on what smuggling is. As Imperial officers are granted immunity from having their possessions scanned, they can walk anywhere without fear, granting them 100% chance to get illegal materials from PointA to PointB.
   
   

   
   This perk, is being granted to those who have not spent the 64 skill points that are mandatory to achieve novice smuggler. Yet to even get close to the immunity an Imperial officer has, the player would have to spend 121 skill points to gain. They would have to Master the Smuggler profession to achieve the 95% protection and sacrifice the chance to be various other professions. While an Imperial officer could be any profession they wished, and have a higher success of hiding illegal materials than even a Master Smuggler is capable of. This needs to be corrected, especially if a mission system for smuggling is to be developed and scans being part of the risk/detection factor.
   

   
   Let us look at the very description of the spice Muon Gold:
   
   

   
   A subatomic reactant that results in intense mental clarity and focus. Banned by Imperial authorities due to its degenerative effect on neural pathways.
   
   

   
   The use of this spice should not be allowable by an Imperial officer without consequences, from the very definition of it.





For Rebels, the penalty is:




• Overt: Imperial Search party will open fire as per orders of the Emperor.


• Covert: Covert Rebels will be identified to all surrounding Imperials (Turned Overt)



Neutral, the penalty is:



• Imperial Citizens will be warned and lose faction points or be fined.






It is also a concern that Neutrals will have no reason to fear being scanned. The loss of faction is a minor inconvenience as they are...well neutral. The fine is a start, yet it would need to be very harsh in order for them to find it beneficial to go through the trouble of finding a smuggler, if not a master smuggler to help them out so that group bonus we receive would be of some use.




For Rebels, its now known most of us are just as inclined to shoot the patrols down instead of waiting to be detected. Death and detection is not much of a deterrent either for them to not carry illegal goods and avoid their affiliation from being revealed.







9. Some smugglers have feelings that a 95% rate to avoid detection is too high. Even the best of smugglers get boarded sometimes, and 95% is too close to a sure thing to reflect the gambling nature that smuggling is.
   






10. *Hot Topic* Droid storage compartments are apparently immune to any and all contraband scans. When players can potentially have the use of up to 5 MSE droids to store 10 items, that's a lot of contraband they can hide indefinitely at no risk, without the assistance of a smuggler. This needs to be fixed.
    






11. *Hot Topic* Items that are stored inside droid storage compartments are able to be instantly accessible via hotkey shortcuts, so there is no need to even call the droid to access your goods. It's bad enough when droids aren't scanned, but when they can be used as one way instant smuggling containers, that's not good at all.






12. As of Publish 7, we were given the ability, through Underworld 1, to correspond and work with Jawas on Tatooine. However, it is making us their trash collectors, and many members of the smuggler community aren't exactly pleased that new content for our profession involves picking up trash for Jawas. The matter of reward is also a concern. Items that sell for 10's of thousands of credits on the trade forums, will be bought for only a couple hundred credits at best by the Jawas. It's great you added an additional thing for smuggler to do through an under used skill, yet acting as a trash collector for jawas is not the role we had in mind for Smugglers.






13. Not necessarily Smuggler related, but it has been shown that members of the Bothan species receive faction perk cost reductions. As this is a possible blessing for the potential smuggler looking to make a market out of faction perks, it would be nice to see some specifics of the 'Bothan Bonus' outlined and officially documented.

Underworld Conclusion:

A main concern at this time is that almost all skills within this skill tree revolve around participating in the Galactic Civil War. As the GCW should be considered a voluntary action, having almost all of the smugglers skills revolve around it is not seen as a "good idea".

Some smugglers recommend removing the skills completely in a complete overhaul of the Underworld line, others want more content added to the profession so that removal isn't necessary, just a desirable possibility to round out your smuggler's skill set. As it stands, this is mostly just an extra place to toss Pistol XP when you are interested in raising yourself to Master Smuggler.

Important: Our class defining skill that we payed skill points for is being given away as a faction freebie and in the form of Droid Storage Compartments. This needs to be resolved as should any other loopholes allowing others to avoid contraband detection and its consequences. Smuggling should be for Smugglers.

Slicing:

This is one of our best skill trees; most smugglers tend to make good money off this one slicing weapons and armor for the public. Some of the problems with slicing are:

1. There are only two kinds of terminals we can slice that actually work and both have to do with destroy and delivery missions. What we would like to see is the ability to slice more types of terminals like Travel terminals, Bank Terminals and all mission type terminals such as Entertainer and Scout, and have the rewards change. As it stands, when a smuggler slices the entertainer/whatever terminals, the payouts do not increase.
   






2. If a smuggler crosses a server zone while slicing there slicing locks up and they are not able to slice until they have logged out for at least 30 minutes or until the server rest.
   






3. If a player uses the auto-pull feature for laser knives from a crate they are pulled with only one charge so the player losses 9 charges per knife.
   






4. The last laser knife from a crate commonly has only one charge.
   






5. Mag-Seal Containers in dungeons. Some of these static containers tell us the lock is busted, but we do not know if this is smuggler error, or by design. If they are indeed locked containers and able to be opened providing someone doesn't botch the job, it would be nice to know for sure.






6. When slicing a terminal, the bonus only applies to the first page of missions that appear. If we refresh, the payment bonus is removed. We need to be able to refresh to terminal, and still keep that bonus, until we actually accept a mission. Then the bonus should be removed.
   






7. Slicing tools take insurance, and for a tool that presently does not affect the quality of a slice in any fashion that we can discern, this makes no sense.
   






8. Smuggler tool quality makes no difference that we have seen in the quality of our slices. Does experimentation matter or not?
   






9. We cannot tell the quality of our slicing tools, if quality does matter, or ever does, we need to be able to see what stats are on the tools themselves, rather than trusting the crafter's word for it.
   






10. Smugglers are still slicing lightsabres. We have been told this is an exploit by Taurin, and would really hope you can manage to prevent this from happening, so as to protect those smugglers who are not knowing that such an action is an exploit. Prevent it for their own good.






11. The slicing menu is not very user friendly. Many are getting confused on what they should do when using fan's or clamps and what it is those messages mean. An adjustment to make the slicing menu more easily understood would be nice.






12. When slicing composite armor, smugglers are given the color pallette option in addition to the normal slicing window. This is very annoying.






13. I would like to emphasize, it would be nice if you included the slicing range per skill on the slicing tree itself as part of the skill descriptions for easy reference and so players can avoid confusion as to what they are capable of per level of skill.

Slicing conclusion:

Over all this is our best crafting skill it makes us good money and also makes us useful to the general population. It would be nice to be able to slice more types of terminals. Other options might be nice as well, that you can see in some of the content idea links at the end of this post. Making the quality matter on our tools could be a possible option to help improve things, yet I know there are smugglers who really like the fact that the profession does not require high end materials and experimentation to be successful in slicing let alone spices. So whether we have experimentation, or not, on our slicing needs to be decided as well.

It would also be great if the Developers could give us a set range on slicing per skill level in Slicing. As it stands there are many rumors of out of the ordinary slices such as 45% on a weapon, and we need to know what is an exploit, and what is not, and by giving us this information you would assist in our efforts of seeing this.

This is not asking for the players to be griefed, but as it stands our services of spice and slicing are considered staple equipment upgrades of the game, and are considered to be a normal service. They should be an illegal one balanced by the risk of carrying it and being detected. Players should be able to play and have fun without having to rely on sliced equipment. Sliced equipment however should show the risk the person is willing to take in order to excel, and should certainly be considered illegal, instead of 'normal'. Essentially, players are being spoiled by sliced equipment.

Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 04-05-2004 04:19 PM

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
:The Ghost with the Most:

1. Smuggler State of the Profession:
   
   Here you will find the Smuggler State of the Profession as outlined by the correspondent Smuggler_Caylin. If you see something that is not there, that you believe needs to be added, please post there and let him know.
   
   
   
   

   
   

   • Smuggler State of the Profession
     
   
   Caylin updates the HTML version of his State of the Profession here.
   
   
   
   

   
   

2. Correspondent post only thread:
   

This is a thread made for the Smuggler Correspondent to share anything that the devs wish him to pass on, or otherwise keeping an archive of things said by the developers, to the smugglers.

Only the Smuggler Correspondent is to post in this thread please.




• Correspondent Posts Only Please: Developer given Smuggler feedback.










3. Smuggler FAQ:
   This is the basic FAQ, it helps to get you acquainted with most of the frequently asked questions that are posted in the Smuggler Forum. Please make this your first stop if you have a question.
   
   The Smuggler FAQ
   






4. Faction Point Selling Guide:
   This is a guide detailing the method smugglers use to purchase and sell faction to other players. Included a very well made macro and if you ever think you may want to sell faction as a smuggler, or even if you are planning to buy faction from one, it is suggested you read this guide first.
   
   Smuggler's Guide to Selling Faction Points v1.2 by Dreven
   






5. Slicing Ethics for the Slicer and Customer:
   A very nice post helping players to interact with their Smuggler. These are basic rules that should be followed by any smuggler and their customer, so that both sides can get along!
   
   The Do's and Don'ts of working with your Slicer by Dinian
   






6. Guide on Spices:
   A good guide on Spices and their effects. Some parts are outdated but this is still a very good document to read if you have an interest in Spice. Below it you will find an attempt by Caylin to update it, provide a crafting macro, recipes, grinding method for fast skill progression and more.
   
   Snaproll's Spice Guide by Snaproll
   




• Updating Snaproll's Guide, edited by Caylin
  








7. Smuggler Shops and Prices across servers:
   This is a listing of many Smuggler shops and their pricings throughout all servers. This way you can compare where you are with other smugglers, or if you need to find supplies on your respective server, you will know where to go.
   
   The Smuggler Shop Directory
   






8. A Guide to Professions that work well with Smuggler:
   Here you will find many differant skill point combinations that are possible with the Smuggler profession. Some very interesting combinations can be made with our skills.
   
   Smuggler Complimentary Professions Guide by Tatanka
   






9. A Guide to Pistol XP for Smugglers:
   In this guide are many planets, monsters and general ideas on how and where to earn Pistol XP for the Smuggler Profession.
   A Smuggler’s Guide to Pistol Experience by Ryutek
   

1. Developer Thread:
   This is located in the In Concept section of the forums. Here they are trying to find what exactly we think smugglers should be able to do, and what role we fill in the game.
   
   IC 2: Smuggler Profession Revamp
   






2. Correspondent Thread:
   
   A new thread posted by LodekDall, trying to get an idea of what Smugglers want when we actually get our Revamp.
   
   What does the Smuggling Community want from the Smuggler Revamp?
   






3. Developer Requested Community Vision Threads:
   These two seperate posts are attempts by the smuggler community to provide a community Vision as requested by the developers. The two here are compiled by Caylin and Geevo, respectively.
   
   
   
   
   • href="http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=90886" target=_blank>Community
     Vision Attempt (Caylin)
     
   
   
   • href="http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=85355" target=_blank>Smuggler Revamp Community Vision Doc (Geevo)
     






4. A frequently updated Smuggler Revamp proposal by Caylin. VERY large and detailed.
   
   Smuggler Revamp 2.0 by Caylin
   




• He has a non-forum version of it located here. Always check the HTML first, because his forum version may be outdated in comparison.








5. A Smuggler Revamp proposal by Kav. Large, detailed and many solid ideas.
   
   Kav's Smuggler Vision 2.5
   






6. Many good Smuggler Revamp ideas compiled by ElectricNomad
   
   Electricnomad's compiled ideas for the Smuggler Overhaul
   






7. An older correspondent post created by SanTsu. This has many ideas and angles on what people wanted in the Smuggler Profession at that time.
   
   If you were to change underworld what would you want.
   

1. People have argued that smuggling needs a risk. Many others have said that said risk would hurt business. The poll is would you accept a hit to your sales of spices and sliced weapons if it meant really smuggling (moving illegal goods from point a to point b) for players for money?
   
   A Poll on Smuggling and Risk






2. Do we...
   
   A. Remove experimentation entirely from Molecular clamps, Upgrade Kits, and Laser Knives. Everything works like today, totally random slices, experimentation and resources don't make a difference
   
   B. Make resources and experimentation affect slicing results. Better resources and more experimentation points result in higher probabilities of good slices.
   
   Help out Thunderheart - Poll on Slicing experimentation









• Please feel free to comment on this poll on Slicing experimentation here.
  

The Debate: Slicing Experimentation

1. This is a website where you can calculate your weapon stats as they are affected by slicing. Pretty handy tool.
   
   Slicing Calculator
   






2. Great smuggling resource site. Lots of great info and it's own forum as well.
   
   The Smuggler's Den
   






3. Good site to see what you need to grind through the Smuggler profession.
   
   Reavus' Guide on how to grind Smuggler.
   

1. Smugglers from all servers contributing to a lighthearted and sometimes silly representation of the things they have to put up with. Highly recommended and a daily read for many of us.
   
   A chuckle for the Smuggler
   






2. Sabacc Online! What more do you need?
   
   Sabacc
   

Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 07-02-2004 04:17 PM

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
:The Ghost with the Most:

One thing I think is critical for us smugglers is to get a definitive idea from the developers about what the developers envisioned for smugglers when the profession was created. What niche are we supposed to fill? Having more specific attributes listed in our skill trees would be a start, but it's difficult to come up with a state of the profession without knowing the purpose we serve. Kind of hard to see how far we've come when we have no waypoints to determine where we started out and where we're supposed to end up.

Other than that, I like the above outline. If we get this "state of the profession" thing out of the way prior to the appointment of a new correspondent, we should be able to avoid some of the lag time inherent in the change of administration.

Another thing ... related to the new smuggler correspondent. As the correspondent is essentially our voice to the developers, I think it'd take a lot of heat off of the new guy if the new guy appoints a series of assistant correspondents. They'd be unofficial in SOE's eyes, but it would help break up the work of the correspondent. Perhaps have an assistant correspondent responsible for a given skill tree? Have DF Assistant, Underworld Assistant, Slicing Assistant and Spice Assistant.

Just a thought ... it would help to break up the problems and be able to focus on tree-specific issues, rather than just all-in-one posts on the correspondent forum that might get lost in the shuffle.

Here's to creating a bureaucracy ... um ... sort of.

1. I like the "One more spot for future editing"

2. You did a good job at covering all of the issues, and I agree with 99% ... The part I disagree with is that "High Ranking OVERT Imperial officers should be able to avoid detection ... however ... maybe the "High ranking" should be higher than Colonel.

I think you raise a lot of valuable points, however a truely high ranking OVERT player should be able to get away with some things (or at least have a high % chance) ... maybe not as high as a Master Smuggler ... but high. I just think back to the movies and books and think that a Storm Trooper would not challenge a high ranking officer.

Maybe if they required that OVERT high ranking officer to also be in some sort of Imperial Uniform ... would that be a compromise you would accept? Define "High Ranking" as a General or Lt. General? As it is, going from Private to Colonel is an expensive journey ... if they make it even more expensive, it would be less common.

Just some alternative ideas ... but I do understand and appreciate your views (along with many that have voiced similar views) on this matter.

Its up for compromise Geevo, the point to raise though is that they should not get a free ride.

Updated some of it to reflect the suggestions above.

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
:The Ghost with the Most:

I'd be a bit more critical with how much fun being a smuggler is these days.

We really don't serve any purpose in the game aside from being walking buff machines/powerup dispensors. That's not much fun to me. We're not really doing anything exciting or fun, and to the degree that things are fun, they're going to get old if this is all we do. Smuggler may be well balanced in that what we do actually works for the most part, but we're not well balanced in terms of doing anything useful for the game world as a whole. As I've said, we serve no role in this game currently.

Until that changes, the smuggler profession will be a collection of nice little bonuses with no real direction to it. Good as a secondary class, but as your primary job? Forget it.

Something else to mention: Contraband and tariffs. These systems are essential to smuggling. We recognize that they will be unpopular, but if we are to have any true interactive purpose in the game, if we are to have any role in the interdependence of professions, they need to be included and players need to get over the "no consequences" style of gaming. Towards that end, the devs need to be willing to take a hard line and say "no, these guys need a purpose. You'll just have to live with this one."

No one forces people to carry spice or sliced weapons. It's a choice. By the same token, if tariffs are instituted, no one forces you to carry taxed goods onto planet X. You choose to do so, and you can always build the taxes into your prices. On the other hand, you can hire a smuggler, avoid the taxes, and make MEGA profits.

Also any contraband or tariff system needs to make it worthwhile for people to use whatever is regulated. Simply saying "All DL44s are illegal!" won't cut it if DL44 Metals are legal or alternative (if not better) systems are available. People have to want to use what's illegal or else, again, we serve no purpose. This is a tough balancing act, and we realize that, but if we are to play the role of the true smuggler, as opposed to spice/slice monkeys or being relegated to delivery boys working solely through mission terminals, these issues MUST be dealt with.

I agree alot there solo, which is why I raised the point of penalties not being harsh enough, among other things. It's supposed to be an oppressive government and they are yet to accomplish that feeling. It would be great content to have later on, but it is not where our profession stands at the moment.

I do have fun as a smuggler even if just for the RP purposes. If you see the old post by SanTsu, you can see that I definatly adjust his statement in that regard as to how much fun it is

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
:The Ghost with the Most: