Smuggler Archive

Thread: Spice changes for Revamp

Vampirerobot
Tue May 18, 2004 1:03 am
#1

Well that does also depend on how good the effect is. I think it would behoove us to have spice do something very different from the "buffing" effects of chef food like Brandy. There's just no way to really compete with that and even if you consider it as something stackable with Brandy (since spice doesn't fill you up) it's still a pretty poor comparison.


Spices either need to have WAY better buffing effects, or do something wild and crazy different from anything chef foods or doc buffs do. (like poison mitigation, non-stop burst run, all around combat mod increases, etc.)





Kelsin Redgrave
Master Smuggler, Master Gunfighter
Starsider
Raanan
Tue May 18, 2004 1:29 am
#2

I agree, there is no way to compete with the buffing abilities of chefs. We definitely need spice to do something wild and crazy to give it purpose. However, to me that would still not warrent making them a pain in the ass to craft. Using rocket launchers as an example, they are unique in that nothing can match their potential damage. The biggest factor which makes them rare though, is their insane requirements to craft. Weaponsmiths HATE making them. The cost of making them drives the prices high enough per shot (over 1k) to make even those commandos who aren't bothered by horrible skill mods to stay away from them.


Dont' get me wrong. I'm not comparing rocket launchers to spice. That would be like comparing squeedgie to a tank. I'm comparing craftability which is viable since crafting is the same no matter the proff. There would have to be a huge benefit to spices to make them require components we cannot create ourselves. Either that, or make the components from other professions enhance while not being necessary ala bio engi enhanced clothing and the master artisan components for droids.






*******************************************************
Explorer 80% - Socializer 53% - Killer 40% - Achiever 26%
Player type

Raanan Soulfire - Bloodfin MSmuggler/MCommando
Breytei E'kre - Starsider Commando/Bounty Hunter
FrankLee
Tue May 18, 2004 1:33 am
#3



Vampirerobot wrote:

Well that does also depend on how good the effect is. I think it would behoove us to have spice do something very different from the "buffing" effects of chef food like Brandy. There's just no way to really compete with that and even if you consider it as something stackable with Brandy (since spice doesn't fill you up) it's still a pretty poor comparison.

Spices either need to have WAY better buffing effects, or do something wild and crazy different from anything chef foods or doc buffs do. (like poison mitigation, non-stop burst run, all around combat mod increases, etc.)






I think this will sound horribly trite, but let me pull a TH on this:

Wait for the combat revamp.

I am a mid-level smuggler, about my 15th class so far, and I like it. I'll like it a lot better when we have a cleaner niche; right now it was a good companion to pistoleer and leaves just enough points to stay TKM. I think however that you'll see a big change in doctor buffs with the combat revamp; my best guess is that the magnitude of the buffs will be halved, or maybe cut back to 75% of their present effectiveness.
As for how we compare to foods... there is a disparity. Because the chef revamp is pretty recent, I don't see them adjusting chef all that much with the CRevamp, so I'm guessing that they'll stay relatively stable.

Ceteris paribus though, I'd bump the spice durations up a bit, make them comparable to foods. I think the downtimes could stay the way they are, they do require a bit of savvy and rhythm to use effectively already; so much that it's presently much easier to use food/drink than drugs.



FrankLee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything I tell you is a lie. - Vergere
Jedi = Luke Skywalker - What friggin' genius designed this PR campaign?
Humans are SUPERIOR! - John Crichton
The Dallet Series (ongoing story)
Katryana
Tue May 18, 2004 3:07 am
#4

I agree with FrankLee, until we see the full Combat Revamp implemented, it's going to be difficult to determine the best role for Spice. Personally, I think Smugglers are too dependant on other professions as it is. I'd like to see more NPC interaction, particularly in regards to procuring Spice components. Having to go from profession to profession bumming components doesn't sound very appealing. Particularly given how tight fisted many players are.




Master Smuggler
Master Gunfighter
Teras Kasi Master
Smoosher of all things Imperial

...you might die, but hell they can't eat you...
Vampirerobot
Tue May 18, 2004 11:31 am
#5

hmm. when is the Combat Revamp? before ours I think, so I guess we will just have to wait.


But to respond to Katryana, the problem I see with NPC interaction is that it's static and not as interesting, and it requires a lot more effort to implement than just changing the crafting requirements.


I know cross-profession crafting is time consuming and difficult, but consider it like this:


if the crafting requirements were only a single item, like a Droid Motivator, which we turn into the Droid Lube, it's a lot like Slicing: we take a weapon (which we didn't craft), and upgrade it. We could still do it factory style, getting a large supply of Droid Motivators and setting a factory to strip them of the Lubricant, refining it down to the spice.


besides which, not all spices would have to be that way. some of them are mined, and would be more appropriate to be obtained via Missions because there's nothing approximating a slave mining scenario in the game. but i think having some variety and sticking with the "story" of each spice would be pretty cool. I'd actually like it if Yarrock roots only came from Endor and had to be foraged by a Scout or Ranger.


Anyway, one of the big complaints about spices is that we are crafting them from scratch. and while that makes sense for some spices, it just doesn't seem right for all of them.


Basically I'd like to see a mixture of ways to acquire them, some being crafted from scratch, some being from components made by other professions, and some being obtained through missions.



Kelsin Redgrave
Master Smuggler, Master Gunfighter
Starsider
Vampirerobot
Tue May 18, 2004 12:24 pm
#6

We all agree Spices need to be better. Since we agree, I'm not going to discuss that. I expect the revamp to give us some awesome spices that are useful in a unique way (different from any existing foods or doctor buffs).


What's up in the air is: How do we get them?


The two ends of the spectrum are crafting from raw resources (like we do now) and Missions. Some people don't like the idea of Smugglers being crafters just like chefs. Some don't like the idea of running boring delivery missions just to get Spice.


Now, Missions don't necessarily have to be boring, but the more interesting they are the more work it's going to take to implement. Static Content like pre-designed missions are pretty much going to be either boring or really time consuming to create.


What I propose is that our Spices come from a slightly different process/source than now exists, that incorporates a little bit of the Mission element, but is also a bit Crafty. It will also justify having better spices, because it will be harder to make them than the present system.


Basically, I think we should need crafted components from a variety of other professions to make many of our better spices. For instance, have a Droid Motivator be the main component needed to make Zyprenol Droid Lubricant. Maybe you don't even need any other components except for something to act as the delivery system, the Smuggler just extracts the lubricant from the motivator and refines it into the spice. Yarrock roots could be a foragable item that Rangers and Scouts find (perhaps even on a particular planet) that a Smuggler then refines into the spice. The Medical spices could use Doctor and Medic components, etc etc.


This would make spice a lot rarer obviously, because it takes more work to produce it than just collecting resources. But by establishing a network of contacts in different professions, a Smuggler could create their own Spice Syndicate, specializing in different spices, etc.


Especially consider how interesting it would be if Rangers and Scouts foraged specifc roots herbs or berries on specific planets, and brought them to Smugglers to refine into a variety of floral spices? Or corrupt Doctors sold off their excess medical supplies to Smugglers who resold them on the street for profit? Or if Booster Blue really WAS a dye used in manufacturing, refined into a drug useable for a valuable effect?


Just embracing the "story" behind each spice would add some much needed depth to the profession, and would be a REALLY easy thing to change.


And to top it off, there could even be spice components that are only obtainable via Smuggler Missions, to get the best of both worlds.


What say you?



Kelsin Redgrave
Master Smuggler, Master Gunfighter
Starsider
00over0
Tue May 18, 2004 12:49 pm
#7

I like this idea very much. As you say, it adds a great deal of depth in a very easy way. One problem is the possible complexity involved (let's not have another RIS Armor situation) versus the power of the particular spice.


Also, ifmaking the spice/getting the components istoo involved, then it will take away too much from other aspects of your character (assuming you're using those other SPs for something).


It will make guilds--especially large guilds--a very helpful resource for any smuggler. But, one of the reasons I like smuggler is the social aspect, so that's not necessarily a drawback. It forces the smuggler even more than now to interact with other players, and by doing so forces other players to interact as well (such as scout/rangers, DEs, etc.).


All in all, a good idea!





-----
Etragahl (Former Jedi, Now SOE Slave)
Tal'Ira (Former Creature Handler, Now SOE Slave)

Dear SOE Developers, can I have some of what your smoking??
Raanan
Tue May 18, 2004 12:57 pm
#8

It's an interesting idea of read before. I'ld like it except for this: overhead. There is no way to be able to craft everything you'ld need yourself. It forces us to buy from other prof (I like the interdependency) which severely increases the price of spice due to overhead. Granted, chef products are more expensive per dose (at least in the case of brandy versus muon) but we're trying to make spice a viable option again. The only way I could see this working is if spices were given more then one dose per crafted item. Uniqueness isn't enough to warrent making things a pain in the ass to craft. I submit rocket launchers and RIS armor as evidence.




*******************************************************
Explorer 80% - Socializer 53% - Killer 40% - Achiever 26%
Player type

Raanan Soulfire - Bloodfin MSmuggler/MCommando
Breytei E'kre - Starsider Commando/Bounty Hunter
Katryana
Tue May 18, 2004 1:40 pm
#9

I do like the idea of there being various ways to get/make/craft/create/etc spice. I just don't like having to depend on another player to do so. Players in this game are notoriously fickle in their choice of profession, in prices, and so on. And Rangers? Whats a Ranger?




Master Smuggler
Master Gunfighter
Teras Kasi Master
Smoosher of all things Imperial

...you might die, but hell they can't eat you...
Vampirerobot
Tue May 18, 2004 4:49 pm
#10

heh. Well I think the Devs are planning on increasing the level of interdependancy between professions, as evidenced by the need for DE parts in a lot of new things. I think if the spices we can make are sought after by particular professions (like a spice that is good for doctors, combat classes, crafters, etc) then it would be worth it to need components made by other professions.


I just like the idea of developing a relationship with a corrupt Doctor to create a run of illegal Stims.



Kelsin Redgrave
Master Smuggler, Master Gunfighter
Starsider
FrankLee
Wed May 19, 2004 2:08 am
#11

Yes, now that you mention it... the idea of a stim 'improver' in the form of an illegal drug is pretty appealing. We could essentially provide the 'lace' for 'laced' medicines.
Imagine the marketshare we'd get if all of a sudden we were the sole manufacturers of say, a compound that made buff packs slightly more effective. Every buff-doc would be clamoring for the additive and charging extra for the exceptional buffs.
Still though, I have this suspicion that buffs are going to be reduced with the revamp, they seem pretty incredible right now, with no drawbacks.



FrankLee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything I tell you is a lie. - Vergere
Jedi = Luke Skywalker - What friggin' genius designed this PR campaign?
Humans are SUPERIOR! - John Crichton
The Dallet Series (ongoing story)
SlickDevlin
Wed May 19, 2004 8:29 am
#12

I'd say that this is a lovely proposal. One way to make both camps (Smuggler as crafter/not crafter) happy is to make all spice have a general effectiveness(regardless of resources) and the ability to add experimentation if so desired.


So at spices 1 every smuggler can make the same scramjet, but those that wish to make "the whip" or "the kind" can supplement additives (perhaps player-crafted elements and/or looted + mission recovered elements).


That way smugglers that don't want to get locked into a "crafter" role don't have to and can still make spices for themselves or their friends, and those that do want to "craft" spice can delve into making the good stuff.


Also, more spices need to be made available, and maybe we could get some that would boost crafting experimentation so crafters might want to establish reciprocal trade agreements with us.


Concerning new spice names -- please no "Deathsticks" -- it just is NOT Star Warsy and shows the drift in imagination that Lucas had from the original SW to the prequels. (Like revising the Greedo/Han Solo seen where solo shot first!) Booster Blue, Thruster Head, Zylopene Droid Lubricant, etc. those are all great names.


Another thing that needs to be fixed are the downers - c'mon man are you really gonna puke after toking on some Grey Gabaki? Maybe you see all creatures as aggro on your radar instead. Maybe you get miscellaneous tells from NPC's telling you to check the condition of your items. Maybe you can't find a certain item (i.e. it becomes invisible). You get the drift.....


Juzza - Soon to be Master Smuggler - Flurry





Juzza - Master Snuggler of Flurry

"I love you, you love me, we all hate jedi can't you see..."

Barney Lives!
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