Smuggler Archive

Thread: Debate about skillpoints and profession concepts

Taln2
Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:17 pm
#1

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the whole "2.5x elite profession" theory works anymore post CU, except for crafting.See,I've come to question my own use or master rifleman with master smuggler. I've usedboth professions for a long time and I am very much in love with the two, especially post-CU where they mix very well. And true to form, I get a lot of solid hitting power and decent (albeit not complete until the fixes for smuggler go live) set of crowd control. Indeed, it's what could be expected from a mix of 3O/5C/1D and 5O/1C/3D.


The problem, however, is that despite everyis the overwhelming lack of diversity amongst classes coupled withthe way the developers seem to treat the classes.It's important to note that the entire CU documentation on classes, for example, treats each class individually on a scale of 1-5 in terms of usefulness in a particular field, when that can be easily voided by mixing up a template along extremely linear lines (as outlined above, BH/rifle/0003 pistol as one example)


As an example, on Bloodfin, I see a lot of strict adherence to one or two combat professions (usually BH and carbineer or rifleman), and it's not hard to grasp why that is - you get all the power you can with all the tanking power that's possible, and there's still a little left over for crowd control (usually 0003 pistoleer from my experience). Nothing else short of Jedi can compete with that particular template withoutthe use ofsome slick tactics.. but even then, an even affair of competence on behalf of the players fighting is simply won by choice of template.


This is all because other professions can be used to essentially nullify any particular weaknesses one profession might have. While this isn't necessarily bad in concept, in practice it allows for significant balance issues and the real loss of distinctiveness amongst players.


The answer to the problem, one which would alsoemphacize the individual class,wouldbe to reducethe amount of elite combat professions a player can holdslightly. That's to say, not so much that everyone becomes a carbon copy of each other, but allow only a little dabbling.


I'd say that 1.5x or 1.75x elite combat masteries is perfectlyviable, sayby increasing the amount of skillpoints required for elite combat masteries andpossibly the inclusion of master marksman or master brawler into respective professions (mind you I don't like that particular inclusion very much, but I'm just throwing it out there). That would open up two paths: either specialize in a profession and dabble slightly, or become a jack of many trades and probable master of none. The best part about it, though,is that with the individual classes having distinct roles, power,and playstyles, it would be much easier to make them work as intended without worrying about overpowering a particular template.


Andto clarify, I'm only talking about elite combat professions, not crafters or even Jedi.As far as crafting goes, it should be left as is, with 2.5x. I'm not sure about Jedi, but I imagine that's a whole other can of worms.



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
Wraith-X
Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:33 am
#2

"As an example, on Bloodfin, I see a lot of strict adherence to one or two combat professions (usually BH and carbineer or rifleman)"


While I understand where you are coming from with regards to the basic ideas you have, my personal take is that the original premise is flawed.


The reason you see a lot of the same combinations of certain professions isn't that they are better than others, its because they are EASIER than others. It does not take that much work to be effective to use a template like that, particularly in PVE. And since SO many people have some slight variation on these common templates it doesn't even take that much work to be effective in PVP.


That said, I personally love these common templated folks cause I eat almost all of them for breakfast. The never see me coming and I see them coming a mile away (they do have the extra range on me ). I have to work very hard indeed and my profession mix might seem suboptimal (TK/Smuggler) and my fighting style I'm sure seems pretty odd as I swap back and forth between ranged and melee.


I don't think I'd be as effective as a BH/Rifle because the template seems to lend itself to a bit of rigidity to its tactics. But they can just pour on the damage which is all many folks want to do.


Most likely these particular FOTM's will continue to be FOTM's and maybe even FOTY's because its the Nuking role as described in the CU documents. More people want to be the damage dealers in combat. Easily measurable worth.


How effective were you in that fight?


Well, I did X amount of damage more than anyone else.


Or boiled down to its simplest "Ooh! Look at that single hit for X amount of damage! I RULE!"


Mezzingand Tanking tend to attract less players (If all the classes are balanced... see: Jedi for a nice example of unbalanced and note that many of them are Tanking due to Mezzing and Nuking being relatively weak [Yes, there is probably some psychology at work here as well since the type of people who are already Jedi are probably predisposed to want to be self sufficient at least]) because their contribution to the group isn't as easy to measure. Healers on the other hand have an easily measurable combat role to fill, but to a large section of the playerbase healing ain't sexy.


But it all works out in the end I think with the way things are set up now. In a nearly full group (This IS a MMO after all) you only need a healer or two, a mezzer or two and a tank or two with the rest being damage droppers. And lo' and behold thats pretty much what we get.


------


That said, I actually love the 2.5 system for pretty much the reasons you are saying you wish it was changed. Its the odd combos that I enjoy seeing. Or really the fact that there AREN'T many 'odd combos' these days for double combat folks because almost every Non-Ranger double master has some potential for playability. Certainly if the broken stuff in various professions were fixed that would be the case. The only complaint I think I have with the current system is that the hybrid combat profs other than BH don't actually seem to have that slight extra kick that they should to accurately portray the extra sps.


Plus you have more options. You can actually be a mezzer and go with Pistoleer and Smuggler but that will be your combat role. You can try to have the best of a couple worlds like the BH/Rifle/Pistoleer 0003 is attempting, but a BH/Rifle/Pistoleer has very limited CC options and a significant portion of those come from BH. The second template simply can't hope to Mez the way the first can and it can't heal at all other than Stims.


BH/Doc is another template I've encountered a couple times now (I hate this one, only taken out one of these so far) and its got some great toys... really seems to be getting into the best of all worlds here... but what you actually end up with is Jack of All Trades, master of none. Weapon accuracy isn't there... so those uber damage specials end up missing, weapon speed isn't there so the cooldowns per special are slower, combined with the fact that the template simply doesn't HAVE as many specials to begin with to cycle through to avoid those cooldowns (The doc combat speed buff offsets this somewhat, but unlike weapon speed it needs to be reapplied on a regular basis).


The quick and easy path to power isn't the only path to power, but I'm glad there are plenty of folks wanting to play that role because I can't stand being the Nuker personally.


This post coming from someone far less verbose would have said "There are no small templates, only small players." or somesuch.




I aim to misbehave!
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