Smuggler Archive
Thread: The economy is in shambles because...
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Ebonfire
Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:18 am
#1
of Random Slicing!
I'veoften wondered what drives people to grind solo group missions hours upon hours.. Anyone consider that routine bad damage slices on T-21's, more common speed slices, rare effectiveness slices on composite, only makes people spend 10x what they normally would on equipment.
Many crafter are rich because of this, and they don't have jack for credit sinks to make up for the amount of credits players are dumping on them. I mean.. do you think I'd go grind missions 3 hours for a create of T-21's if I could get the slice I wanted from 1 or 2? Shoot I slicedabout 15 setsof armor my alt made before I dropped smuggler, and Igot ahandful of effectiveness slices over 28% out of all of them.
If theychange the amount of money people canmake, then they would ease a lot of pain by changing slicingto benifit the consumerover the retailer.
kgmkiorys
Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:42 am
#2
it's been a long battle on these boards about the necessity or not to keep slices random.
The 2 main schools of thinkings are :
1. Make it so we can choose, so that we could raise our prices based upon our abilities and investment in quality tools.
That would allow us to slice less but better.
2. Don't change the randomness of it, that's our only way of making a living and slicing in huge amounts is far better for our income, and for the smithes income too.
Either arguments are at some points good and need to be heard, however i would like to make certain things clear about slicing :
Slicing shouldn't be the rule but the exception
A 30+ slice is rare, and should remain so
Initially, i believe smugglers did have slicing in their skillset so that they could tweak their own gear, not everyone's one.
This said, i also would like to mentionthat coming here to charge smugglers with being responsible for people's crazyness is not the best way to get friends. We are unknown to the devs, lied to every time we are told something, and now consideredas a game breaking profession? Don't try to mention that anywhere else, because people (especially those with a red name) could believe you're right and imagine a new nerf for us. And i promise you we have had enough of them right now.
Ebonfire
Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:17 am
#3
kgmkiorys wrote:
it's been a long battle on these boards about the necessity or not to keep slices random.
The 2 main schools of thinkings are :
1. Make it so we can choose, so that we could raise our prices based upon our abilities and investment in quality tools.
That would allow us to slice less but better.
Yup this would be best for the economy. I remember posts about this argument, and I have posted in them.
2. Don't change the randomness of it, that's our only way of making a living and slicing in huge amounts is far better for our income, and for the smithes income too.
I am an armorsmith, and I know why I sell a lot of armor. I was a smuggler for about9 months on and offbetween 2 different characters... believe me the income you get from slicing is completely irrelevant when you can make a mill a buff. But they are fixing that now, sodo you really think that people are going to be blowing the same amount of equipment? Smugglers are going to get less businessanyways because peoplewill not be buying the same amount of equipment as before, and this will remain untilcrafters adjust their prices to fit combat players incomes. In the endsmugglers are probably going to have to lower their prices also. Everyoneloses, but upper5% of the player base that will remain sickly rich.
Either arguments are at some points good and need to be heard, however i would like to make certain things clear about slicing :
Slicing shouldn't be the rule but the exception
A 30+ slice is rare, and should remain so
Initially, i believe smugglers did have slicing in their skillset so that they could tweak their own gear, not everyone's one.
Yup you could say the same about mind, and health buffs.. but the player base dictates the direction the game goes (see mad amount of jedi runing around). Slicing is the standard until something changes.
This said, i also would like to mentionthat coming here to charge smugglers with being responsible for people's crazyness is not the best way to get friends. We are unknown to the devs, lied to every time we are told something, and now consideredas a game breaking profession? Don't try to mention that anywhere else, because people (especially those with a red name) could believe you're right and imagine a new nerf for us. And i promise you we have had enough of them right now.
Give me a break.. I sat here an cried when the smugglers didn't get their revamp. But I also fought against the proposed junk revamp at the time. I was here when panic shot got nerfed, I was here during double slicing bans, and I was here during the power-up slicing fixes. I've grinded master smuggler 3 times on two different characters, and I've sliced well over 3,000 items.. so I could consider myself more smuggler than most. I don't need the trolling accusations.
Slicing experimentation with high quality tools would be lucrative for smuggler, and good for the economy... that is what I was trying to say.
Respectfully submitted..
kgmkiorys
Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:41 am
#4
Didn't expect to be aggressive, was just saying that if you have to promote your idea for experimentation mattering on slice, maybe you shouldn't use this one argument, because as you sure know since you're a former fellow smuggler, devs have a tendancy to make troubling situations disappear by nerfing the origins instead of finding solutions.
I have been a Master Smuggler / Master AS myself for some 6 months and perfectly see your point. However when i got fed up with filling my vendor with sliced armors i turned into the Triple master. And now that i can't survey anylonger, i perfectly understand those who were defending their points by saying that a smuggler is not a resource hunter.
I however do agree that we should have a way do affect the outcome, either on the slice type, or on the slice result, but not this way. As it was intended (for what i've understood) you should be able to slice with anything underhand, and that perfectly suits the smuggler's type.
Upon the rarity of slicing what we need to make this coming true is a true contraband penalty.
And if you have to give any weapon or piece of armor a 30% slice, why not simply remove slices and make them 30% more effective at the initial craft? This way the slicing problem could be solved in a convenient way (developper-side) by removing any equipment slicing from the game.
What you want is the ability to transform your 66% base compo into 90% base on a regular basis, why don't you craft 90% base directly without the skill point costs? This way people won't even need a smuggler anylonger. There needs to be rarity, and there needs to be random in slices, not completely random, i agree, but if you make it completely dependant on tools quality, then you just have to add 35% percent to any stat you want on weapons and armor at the initial craft and firget about slicers.
Mentski
Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:03 am
#5
Slicing should use the experimenting interface. Get specific slicing points, put them into the specific stats allowed, and it still works on a "dice roll" - so you still have a varying success on where you put the points.
That would give slicing far more depth imho.
Ternque01
Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:39 am
#6
Whatever happens to slicing, I strongly support maintaining some form of risk.
Jalgraxa
Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:44 am
#7
imho we should be able to choose the slice but make a % to fail slice and make the overall quality % random. it shouldnt matter what quality of thetool you use...does it matter if we use platinum tipped screwdrivers or a butter knife to tighten the screws down on our motherboards when building computers?
Mater_Gunfighter
Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:21 pm
#8
Ternque01 wrote:
Whatever happens to slicing, I strongly support maintaining some form of risk.
I totally agree. If there is a new way of slicing that guarantees a good slice, it takes the fun and excitement out of getting something sliced. Don't get me wrong, 35% and 45% everytime would be awsome, but where's the fun in that?
Imperiai2
Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:53 pm
#9
I'm not actually sure what would happen to a smuggler's cashflow if they changed it. I was originally in favor of keeping it random, because let's face it, people will pay until they get a slice they like. We are SUPPOSED to like that fact. However the first thought would be 'if people know what they will get, they will only bring 3 or 4 items instead of crates, because they are bound to get something decent if I'm choosing, and I'll make less.'
But see THAT could bring in more potential clients overall. More people will seek you out because they know you WILL deliver what they are looking for.
However, being a smuggler, I know that thiscould be an absolute pain. I'd have to drop my Master Smuggler tag to get through Coronet, which I don't really want to have to do. To me the Master Smuggler tag is a badge of honor andpain. As in 'I'm proudly displaying this badboy as proof that I can deal with losing (what is it, like: ) 67 skill points until this profession is fixed!'
What would be awesome was every once in a while, coded that so every Master gets them every once in a while, would be a slicing window that pops up and says "Looks like you're lucky. This (item) looks easy enough to slice any way you wish. Will you choose damage/speed/eff/enc?" Very controlled slicing choices...
Message Edited by Imperiai2 on 11-13-2004 04:19 PM
riotcontrol
Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:15 pm
#10
Imperiai2 wrote:I'm not actually sure what would happen to a smuggler's cashflow if they changed it. I was originally in favor of keeping it random, because let's face it, people will pay until they get a slice they like. We are SUPPOSED to like that fact. However the first thought would be 'if people know what they will get, they will only bring 3 or 4 items instead of crates, because they are bound to get something decent if I'm choosing, and I'll make less.'But see THAT could bring in more potential clients overall. More people will seek you out because they know you WILL deliver what they are looking for.However, being a smuggler, I know that this could be an absolute pain. I'd have to drop my Master Smuggler tag to get through Coronet, which I don't really want to have to do. To me the Master Smuggler tag is a badge of honor and pain. As in 'I'm proudly displaying this badboy as proof that I can deal with losing (what is it, like67 skill points until this profession is fixed!'
What would be awesome was every once in a while, coded that so every Master gets them every once in a while, would be a slicing window that pops up and says "Looks like you're lucky. This (item) looks easy enough to slice any way you wish. Will you choose damage/speed/eff/enc?" Very controlled slicing choices...
This sounds very nice to me. It would be quite interesting if there were 'one in a million' slices that go outside the usual slice range - something like looting an exceptional weapon.
Smuggler_Caylin
Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:16 am
#11
I don't really agree with this. Slicing has little to no effect on the income coming in to the game system, it just has the credits move around a little more. Our services are relatively inexpensive and the randomness doesn't mean much when making money is their concern.
Personally I believe Smugglers to be the saviors, not the destroyers, of the SWG economy. If implemented correctly.
Personally I believe Smugglers to be the saviors, not the destroyers, of the SWG economy. If implemented correctly.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
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