Smuggler Archive

Thread: Dear Tiggs, this is good communication

Taln2
Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:25 pm
#1

First, let me state clearly that this isn't a flame so much as a "let's see more of that" kind of post. The tone is a little hostile, but hey, I'M a little hostile.



Clicky link.

I figure while you guys are so busy trying to emulate World of Warcraft, ya might as well take some notes from their PR. They explain Blizzard's plan for the game fully, and don't treat the playerbase like fools. Meanwhile, any information that comes out of SOE feels like reading the Vanguard FAQ (more on this later...)



Give yer players a bone with some meat on it, and they might not be so eager to bite yer head off.




Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
BioEngine
Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:42 pm
#2

Oh, the irony.



"Why should I play your game?"



lmao, it's like they are applying for their own position.





Account active 'till November 10th, contact me on forum name:
Stamina
Taln2
Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:52 pm
#3

Yeah that FAQ is terrible. I was hyped about Vanguard and the whole premise surrounding it until I took a long, insightful (questionable use of the term "insightful"here) gander at that FAQ. Brought me down to reality real fast. That's how those SWG Stratics sessions and, heck, any information that comes out of SOE at all, make me feel anymore.


I miss Mr. O'Hara, he made new stuff sound interesting. Like he had a real interest in what was going down and whatnot. Then again, maybe it was a wise decision forhis career torun while he could.



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
Rhu
Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:51 pm
#4

I suppose I should hand one thing to Blizzard: they do know how to generate hype for their polished knock-off uninovative but pretty products.


I still feel sickened anytime someone mentions WarCraft III as a "good game." And points to its "best strategy title of the year" awards it got from fanboy sites. Man, that game sucked. I can think of a two RTSes that were more fun and engaging in the same year, and a few that were more fun and engaging from years before. And the Diablo series was another joke. Whooptie doo. A dumbed down realtime graphical treatment of the classic roguelike games (such as NetHack and Angband) with less imagination.


But it was WCIII that finally got me to decide to never play another Blizzard game again. Not that one gamer's refusal to bother with their shallow gameplay is going to make a big difference in their cash flow, but... There it is, anyway.
BadChef
Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:23 pm
#5

Say what you want about the rest but leave Diablo 2 alone. Aside from all the hacks, exploits, cheaters, dupes, theives, farmers, corpse popers, greifers..........nevermind, as you were.




xfire name: thachef
__________
BadChef: Smuggler
Landlubber
Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:04 am
#6






Rhu wrote:

I suppose I should hand one thing to Blizzard: they do know how to generate hype for their polished knock-off uninovative but pretty products.


I still feel sickened anytime someone mentions WarCraft III as a "good game." And points to its "best strategy title of the year" awards it got from fanboy sites. Man, that game sucked. I can think of a two RTSes that were more fun and engaging in the same year, and a few that were more fun and engaging from years before. And the Diablo series was another joke. Whooptie doo. A dumbed down realtime graphical treatment of the classic roguelike games (such as NetHack and Angband) with less imagination.


But it was WCIII that finally got me to decide to never play another Blizzard game again. Not that one gamer's refusal to bother with their shallow gameplay is going to make a big difference in their cash flow, but... There it is, anyway.





/cheer


/offer beer



I'm soooo glad that I'm not the only former NetHack player who sees it that way



______________________________________________________
The Ti'lya Brothers: Ailar (Entertainer/Chimaera, DG Trader/Bria),
Klofi (Smuggler/Chimaera) -- Cancelled,
"You have a right to be upset. Anyone who is attached to any profession that doesn't get a lot of new content has a right to be upset." -- HanseSOE
______________________________________________________
Raph Koster on: "SWG: What went wrong?"


Taln2
Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:43 am
#7




Rhu wrote:

I suppose I should hand one thing to Blizzard: they do know how to generate hype for their polished knock-off uninovative but pretty products.


I still feel sickened anytime someone mentions WarCraft III as a "good game." And points to its "best strategy title of the year" awards it got from fanboy sites. Man, that game sucked. I can think of a two RTSes that were more fun and engaging in the same year, and a few that were more fun and engaging from years before. And the Diablo series was another joke. Whooptie doo. A dumbed down realtime graphical treatment of the classic roguelike games (such as NetHack and Angband) with less imagination.


But it was WCIII that finally got me to decide to never play another Blizzard game again. Not that one gamer's refusal to bother with their shallow gameplay is going to make a big difference in their cash flow, but... There it is, anyway.




Well first thing first,I'm not gonna argue about WC3/Diablo.


But part of my point here is that Blizzard is not 100% all hype thattheygenerate --their playerbase is very loyal, and there's a two-way street of respect between the fanbase and the developers. Other studios like Bungie, makers ofHalo,have had tremendous success in this regard as well (and to play devil's advocate and counter one of your points, Halo could be considered"just another Doom clone"). As much as monster corporations would love to think it, people are not idiots and know when they're geting the bum end of a deal -- that's why SWG's fanbase has only ever shrunk, despite all the new players they manage to bring in (I'd go so far as to say that if nobody had ever quit SWG, there'd be about 1.25 million players in the US alone). It really goes without saying that if a service provider, of ANY sort, treats customers with respect, they'll only make good out of it.


The strange thing is that SWG's PRwasn't always "bad." Back in the days of Q-3P0 and Holocron, there was a good amount of very positive communications both ways. Wewere told what was in storefor us, what the plans were, and were even given honest answers to inqueries, even if we didn't like them. Let's compare then and now for a sec, in regards to the smuggler revamp. "Then," we were told"[thedevs]find it necessary to delay the smuggler revamp, and [GreenMarine is totally] pissed off about it" (paraphrased)."Now," we get told"[the devs are] moving smuggler enhancements to a longer termimplementation." Which seems more human and compassionate?


SOE, currently,doesn't do any the things Blizzard or Bungie do to maintain a fanbase. They don't often put on the face of "oh hey, we care about your concerns." And in the rare circumstance they do -- for example, when Mr. Smedley came to the forums, created an account, and posted a letter addressing the concerns of the CU while it was going live (really, did anyone actually believe he was reading each and every angry letter as he claimed?) -- we don't believe them because they're not apparantly genuine. There really doesn't appear to be ANY respect factor at all, either way. The sad thing is,this isn't just an occurance with SWG. SOE's increasingly horrible reputation has beena plague onEQ1 for years, ever since the Verant take-over. It's so bad that, in fact, whenLucasArts announced that SOE would do the development for SWG, people on the forums were absolutely livid, and quite a few people vowed, as you did Rhu, to not buy SWG entirely on that precept..


At any rate, I'm not saying WoW is superior to SWG gameplay wise (that's an opinion for another thread, hehe), but when it comes to community relations, there's just no contest. That thread I linked explains the holy trinity for every single new change coming to WoW in the coming months: what we're doing, when we'll do it (or revel info about it), and why we're doing it. Sure, people will still complain about things even after getting that much information, but the majority of the intelligent fanbase will beinformed at least, and will help silence the flames. SOE really only gives us 1/3 of those (though at times they do go 3/3), so it's really no surprise that ceaseless whining and flaming have and will continue to dictate the flow of the game.


It's just got to improve if they want to keep me as a customer. But then again, I guess the same could be said for thehundreds of thousands (if not reaching into the millions)ofcustomers they've lost from EQ and SWG over the years. So what's another account, more or less?



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
BloodMonk
Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:46 am
#8

lol but WoW customer support is abysmall even compared to SWG's CS



Proud Member of -BLOOD-

I HATE GRINDING)

"Invader's blood marches through my veins like giant radioactive rubber pants! The pants command me! Do not ignore my veins!"

Managing the Bloodmonks Weapon Facility (aka Sly's Slavepit), Producer of fine specialty weapons.
Taln2
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:04 am
#9

I've heard that as well though not experienced it personally. I totally expect that CS varies server to server, like it does in SWG.



Here, on Bloodfin, out of thedozen tickets I've filed, I've gotten1 human response,3 completely irrelevant-to-the-issue autoresponses, and the rest were completely ignored for days on end, sometimes weeks (after a few days I'd forget I even filed the ticket and find it a month later). Veryoften the resolution called upon me having to result to gamer ingenuity to get me out of whatever mess got me stuck.



On the WoW server I play, Stormreaver, I fileda total of 4tickets and got personal responses (/tells, no less)to each and every one of them.



But really, CS is only as good as the person behind the keyboard. I try not to hold it against them when they don't perform very well. But, like with PR, people tend to really appreciate CSRs who go out of their way to help. For example, CSR-TimothyV is hailed as something of a messiah on Bloodfin, which is a little humorous but not totally unexpected.



Message Edited by Taln2 on 09-09-2005 12:34 PM



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
BloodMonk
Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:36 am
#10

I always got responses in wow....but they never had anything to do with my ticket...



I TRIED to get some info about an add-on which IMO had features that were exploits....


tried an ingame ticket, and several support forums....the reps always said this "we do not support any 3rd party software or add-ons, please contact the author"



FFS I WAS ASKING IF THE BLOODY THING WAS CONSIDERED AN EXPLOIT OR NOT YOU MORONS!!!!!





Proud Member of -BLOOD-

I HATE GRINDING)

"Invader's blood marches through my veins like giant radioactive rubber pants! The pants command me! Do not ignore my veins!"

Managing the Bloodmonks Weapon Facility (aka Sly's Slavepit), Producer of fine specialty weapons.
Crillan
Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:00 am
#11

I wouldn't start ripping on Vanguard just yet, it's not even in beta yet is it? They haven't even stated what classes and races are going to be in the game from what I've read in the FAQ and in the forums. I'm waiting until beta starts to really get into researching that game. It looks fairly promising imo.



Crillan Kidneypoker: Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer/0040 Bounty Hunter
Crillan' Ataraxia: Light Jedi Knight
Krillen Quickfix: Master Shipwright/Master Artisan/Master Merchant
Lord_Eoin
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:51 pm
#12


best part of the FAQ-


Quote:





All games age, even massively multiplayer games[Such as Star Wars: Galaxies]with content that can be patched and updated. Economies grow old and inflated, the 'newness' and reward for exploring the world wears off.






Im finding this true more and more. The crafting aspect of SWG, the thing that made it so unique, was ruined with the CU and has yet to recover. With the new expansion packs and more and more jedi entering the mix, the need for crafting is minimal, quest rewards and loot is all you need, and the Jedi are completly self-sufficent. I really wounldn't be suprised if, when LOTR:SoA comes out, that I'll switch to that. I'm all ready finding Guild Wars to have aimproved system(for the most part) and, its free.




Eclipse - Halleroder- Master Commando (MC/MS Pre-NGE)

Eclipse - Ja'nae Aldernaci - 90 Smuggler

Bloodfin - Radnor Waypeg - Master Medic (MD/MCM Pre-NGE)

Kettemoor - Shidem Edgarwado - Master Officer (TKM/MSW/Pikes Pre-NGE)
Taln2
Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:08 am
#13






Crillan wrote:

I wouldn't start ripping on Vanguard just yet, it's not even in beta yet is it? They haven't even stated what classes and races are going to be in the game from what I've read in the FAQ and in the forums. I'm waiting until beta starts to really get into researching that game. It looks fairly promising imo.





It actually is in close beta now.Sigilonly invited long term forum participants in the first round of closed beta. Later it will probably open up a bit as is standard with MMOG betas. Truthfully, I'm actually looking forward to Vanguard as well, I just think the "leaving gaps in the FAQ" philosophy is going to return and hit them hard. It not a great teaser unless you know more about the game than the FAQ suggests (usually by word of mouth).



Corbin Greylocke
The Master Thief

Empire at War - destined for GOTY 2006.
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