Smuggler Archive

Thread: Reading Between the Lines (Analysis of Devspeak)

maxtheusher
Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:38 am
#1

DISCLAIMER: This by no means is levelled at JFreeman as an attack on him. His posting in DLC's thread is quite possibly the most open and informative post I have ever seen a Dev make in this forum, and I thank him for it. This is merely an observation of what he said, and what it actually means for us. Though I'm sure plenty of you have already figured this much out.


JFreeman wrote:

Ah, just to be clear: QA's not the hold-up. Sometimes we push features back that are "ready to be tested" because there are too many other features that are also ready to be tested. I'm just saying that's one of the sorts of things that can make it difficult to promise a precise date when things will be released. I'm not saying that is why the slicing changes aren't on live this very second.

As far as I know, there is no hold-up with slicing: it is proceeding along "on schedule" so far. Even so, we still can't provide any exact dates, because stuff happens.


Read: We had to give Jedi their animations that they whined about at Fanfest.

More broadly,the Smuggler revamphas gone from a SERIOUS and necessary FINISHING of a profession, to, just another "feature" that they're working on, to provide us with "Exciting New Content! (tm)" The fact that our "revamp" (most of which is either entirelyNOT what we asked for, or not ENTIRELY what we asked for) is no longer a revamp, but a series of "content" additions being added in a string of publishes that I'm sure will include more jedi fun, and maybe even a "new, exciting" backpack or something (sorry no wait that only comes in expansions...) is just a subtle kick in the groin. Just enough to sting.

Okay, think that first part was pessimistic?

We get the slicing "mini-game" (what happened to revamp, and will it live up to our other mini-game, Jawa Sanford & Son?) and it's kinda cool, or a huge let down. Either way, we've lost. The one thing we've always hated about our profession is the fact that we're a bunch of slicemonkies. Slicing is like a funnel, or focusing lens; all the incompetent, incomprehensible, jerkwad goons from the server are squeezed through it, into a concentrated goop that, even while we are currently getting fun stuff like negative slices,is still sending "hey u slice 4 me, come to nightister stonghol I pay u 500 credts" tells. Even if slicing is a blast, and because of its complexity we can charge enough to make a living on it, so much so that we cantolerate the total human waste we're slicing for,WHY (that's WHY with a w) is it the first thing we're getting? I mean, after all, what were we looking for out of the Smuggler Revamp? Two things. SMUGGLING, and combat proficiency (at least enough to escape the player bh's we were sure to have after us). Well, the CU took care of the combat stuff (sort of, afterall, we're a "2-3" and they've admitted it, with no plans of fixing it), but instead of getting that Smuggling thing, we get to slice different!

Third part same as the first a little bit more bitter, and... well, it's bitter.

THIRD PART! YAY! So here we come to my paranoid take on what COULD happen as a result of their skullduggery.

  • We got our combat. better than it used to be, but so's everyone else, and we're still gimped. We are not the ubar crowd control gods we were made out to be. But hey, it's only PART of the whole right?
  • We're getting our slicing. Wow that description sounds realllllly cool! Wait, you made it simpler? Okay well-- HEYYYYYY.... all you did was add a picture of red and blue wires (still on a wooden staff) and now we have to add 4 different tools made with asteroid resources to guarantee a slice! (okay, this is an exaggeration I'm sure) well, allright, but at least the smuggling part is still coming
  • HEY! I thought you said there wa a difference between Smuggling and smuggling! there's no difference! Hey! Hey wait! I'm talking to you! Don't walk away! This is serious! Hey!

And so ends our hosing.

The great thing about the system the Devs chose for giving us "all that we asked for" is that it's gradual. One tiny piece at a time. So by the time it's all finished and implemented, they can say "We've working on this for TWO YEARS NOW! We can't go back and start over just yet. There are other more pressing matters. You know Chef's cry too!!"

/exhale

Okay. Long, yes. Ranty, yes. Paranoid, yes. The shining light of truth? jury's still out on that one.

Again, all apologies to JFreeman, I don't hold you personally responsible nor do I intend any harm to you by means of this post.

/sigh wish it wasn't so early.




大胆框
赏金猎人

动 性交 你 SOE
GanymedePharuu
Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:14 am
#2


keck for mayor!...



oh wait.





cccccccccccccccccccc
Kohs V'sto
I wanted Smuggling for Christmas
but all i got was
<--- this stupid hat.

I am Jack's ignored profession.
Luke Skywalker is DEAD!
Ragnaat
Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:39 am
#3

please don't go down this route keck. I know you have nothing against JF, but it just doesn't serve us well to overanalyze otherwise helpful posts like this



:: Retired... For the moment ::
-I support going slow and being careful.
focus thread (n.): there for us to focus on while they went behind our backs and did whatever they wanted to, anyway. (Source: AngusMacGregor)
maxtheusher
Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:53 am
#4

wish I could help it.

And I can't stress ENOUGH how much I appreciate JF posting here. And I'm glad to hear Slicing is in the can.

But it doesn't change the fact that the post reinforced my greatest concerns. We STILL don't know when our stuff is coming, we STILL don't know WHAT our stuff is going to be, we STILL don't registers on the Dev's scale of important things.

When JF said, when a Dev finishes something and hands it in, it's out of his hands, he's talking about the guys who literally wrote the code, who literally designed the specific engine in question. There's still "Devs" for lack of a better word, that can decide what gets to Live before what. So it goes to QA, and they say, we don't have time to test this, let's test this other stuff first? UM, that shows a total lack of priorities. Just whatever's easiest? Not the thing that's been waiting 2 years?

And I'm not saying that the slicing thing won't be in Publish 18. I'm not saying Publish 18 won't be out on time. I'm still hopeful it will be.

I'm saying the fact that smuggler-related work takes NO priority over anything else, that if someone in SOE was too busy with making sure Bantha Poodoo animated properly, we would be delayed, even for 2 hours, is reprehensible.



大胆框
赏金猎人

动 性交 你 SOE
Nihiser
Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:55 am
#5

Oh man, If our new slicing tools use asteroid resources I think I might cry.

Dangit.



Nihiser / Slico
Eclipse
Smuggler at Large/First Class Engineer
Katalepsis
Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:00 am
#6

I for one am a little concerned and rightfully so. Slicemonkey always came alongside spice revamp and content, so I will admit slicing is a huge deal for me personally but it certainly won't tide me over for another 12-24 months while the rest of the stuff (combat specials, spice and content) continues to fester...I don't want small Smuggler changes, quite honestly, that are spread out over patches and publishes between here and the Second Coming of Chr1st. I think after 2yrs, in the same tier as Chefs, Droid Engineers and many others, we deserve a Revamp even if it does have to logically wait a few more weeks to hammer out post-CU bugs and such.



__________________________________________________________________________
Sako Stormrider - FS M.Smuggler/M.Secret - Radiant
[pronounced "seiko" as in the timepiece]
_______________________________________________________________
Bahn Sei'Kadi - FS Rodian MBH/M.Rifleman - Bria alternate
[I make Jedi go die die]
__________________________________________________
il est moi
[enjoy]
SmugglinZane
Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:02 am
#7






Ragnaat wrote:
please don't go down this route keck. I know you have nothing against JF, but it just doesn't serve us well to overanalyze otherwise helpful posts like this





No offense Ragnat, but wasn't JFreeman the one who brought us Smuggler vs smuggler?



Either way, I know what Keck is saying. The point of it all is that WE are the ones who get pushed for other priorities, not the other way around, and nothing in the last 2 years gives us reason to believe anything else.


What's even funnier is that I didn't even see a Friday Feature yesterday after that comment.



Edit: OK, so there was a Friday Feature, just looked it up. I guess I missed it since it was so pointless and inconsequential.

Message Edited by SmugglinZane on 06-11-2005 10:08 AM



"Jedi claims of being "broken" are like saying "But my TV isn't widescreen! It's broken! My TV can't show high-def pictures in 1080i, it can only do 720i! It's broken!" Meanwhile, crafters are saying "We'd really like to have a TV that's larger than 12" and gets more than 4 channels and doesn't constantly lose vertical control", and entertainers are saying "Can we get some color instead of this B&W piece of junk?" And smugglers? We're listening to radio programs of "The Shadow" and "The Abbot and Costello Comedy Hour" and hearing FDR's Fireside Chats. We don't even HAVE a damn TV, much less a broken one or a "broken" one by Jedi standards. I'd LOVE to be as "broken" as they are." - The Legendary Solo4114
Ragnaat
Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:03 am
#8

I have big concerns about what actually constitute these changes, when we're getting them, and how much real time and resources will be spent on making them "right" once the patch they're part of hits a public test server.

My own biggest concern isn't one of resources, but of interface and time. A lot of hype surrounds this new "game" and, well, when I've faced with slicing 3 suits of armor for someone that might not be the best time to have to play a "game" 25-30 times. My secondary concern, if they do go down the stat mod route and not the % to weapon stat route is over the usefulness of all the available mods and our ability or inability to choose.

Your concerns above are just as valid, as are the other points you've made, I just don't see a reason to pick apart JF's post to make them, and I think doing so may have the unitended consequence of being seen by some on the staff as an "i told you so" in terms of not posting anything at all around here.



:: Retired... For the moment ::
-I support going slow and being careful.
focus thread (n.): there for us to focus on while they went behind our backs and did whatever they wanted to, anyway. (Source: AngusMacGregor)
Katalepsis
Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:06 am
#9

That's true about posting responses to their uber rare comments on our Profession. Although, courage means doing the right thing even when you don't want to (this applies to Us and Them). So it's proper for them to suck it up and post communications and, if we feel the deep God given desire, for us to post our thoughts in response without fear of reprisal.



__________________________________________________________________________
Sako Stormrider - FS M.Smuggler/M.Secret - Radiant
[pronounced "seiko" as in the timepiece]
_______________________________________________________________
Bahn Sei'Kadi - FS Rodian MBH/M.Rifleman - Bria alternate
[I make Jedi go die die]
__________________________________________________
il est moi
[enjoy]
testify4
Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:35 am
#10

I usually don't think reading between the lines works on most dev posts, but I see the reasoning in this one.

Remember when all of the early prophets analyzed the dev posts on unlocking Jedi? Visit every planet. Kill one of every creature. Build a house. Become high ranked in the GCW. Do quests from every NPC. In the end, what was it? 100% grinding professions! Those beautiful dev posts that created a mysterious method of becoming a Jedi were a veil that apparently 5 minutes of thought were put in to the process. And if you don't do it right the first time, you have to do it again, so the revamp made all the other professions wait (again).

Unfortunately, the development heads that determine the focus of the developers aren't in to the Smuggler love.

Most Smugglers have been riding a rollercoaster of discontent for over a year as we hear of revamps, then delayed revamps, then missing developers, then "secret" dev teams that are actually working on Kashyyyk, then a revamp proposal... Which it turns out isn't really a "revamp", but some "smuggler stuff in upcoming patches", followed by zilch as we hit refresh every Friday to see another feature on "The Galaxy's Hairstyles!" or "Dantooine: Foliage Revamp!". I guess they figure we're used to it, so park 'em for another month.

I am happy about TKMs getting their animations, though. I am not a TKM any longer, but, hey.



./ Dimek Tokot
./ Elder Smuggler / Black Epsilon Ace
./ Happiness is loot and a warm blaster.

SpinningCloud
Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:00 am
#11

testify4; "I guess they figure we're used to it, so park 'em for another month. "


Precisely.


For two years ignoring us has worked out just fine for SOE. Why change it if it isn't broken?


What exactly are their consequences for treating us the way they do? Apparently none. Most of us are still around paying them regularly, I bet our attrition rate isn't all that much higher than any other profession.


Fortunately I'm nearing the end of my stay in the SWG world. Part of me hopes they don't make my July 31 deadline for SMUGGLING content, most of me doesn't believe they will. Slicing though just isn't going to give me enough of a thrill to get me to stay around until they DO put smuggling in place.


Bottom line is that two years is MORE than enough time to add this part of the game. I've seen nothing but stalling and delays from them, their track-record with us is about as bad as it can get. All one can go by is performance. SHow me the performance as it relates to Smuggler.




Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Two years of "Soon"(TM), a harsh bunch of lies.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie"

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Dancers can't smuggle and neither can I.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie, Why are there Jedi, I don't know why.
Ask me a riddle and I reply: "Smuggler, Smuggler, Smuggler Pie."

Page 1 of 1
Previous Next