Smuggler Archive

Interesting read.

Some other game developers need to start hyping "NO ALPHA CLASSES!!! COME JOIN THE REVOLUTION!!!" so that the people at Lucas Arts jump on the new gimmick bandwagon and we as players stop getting this crap called Jedi overpopulation.

Alpha classes are an attempt by developers to solve the one giant problem (I would call it a core flaw actually) with MMORPGs, and that's the end-game. The point where a player has done absolutely everything the game has to offer and has no real incentive to stay around.

Every single MMORPG producing company is actively seeking an answer to this question.SWG's answer is to provide the player with as much room for player-driven content as mechanically possible. It's a reasonable and logical assumption, but it's also been the cause of the game being called "a thousand miles wide and an inch deep" to quote one magazine (I believe Maximum PC in 2003).

Keep in mind that MMORPGs, despite being what, in their 5th generation now? are still relatively new to gaming, and they'restill maturing. So far,there've caught up to the rest of the industry in terms of thetwo definitive answers whichown the entire entertainment marketlately. Either refine the old (eg: EQ2, AC2, L2) and define the new (eg: AO, SWG, Darkfall).

There's one fundamental flaw in this argument. They aren't keeping tight-lipped about some industry revolutionizing new technology. They're talking about our profession. THAT matters not to Blizzard, or Coleco, or whatever hot new company is looking for an edge, only to us, the smugglers.

By keeping quiet, the "You'll see it when it's done" method if you will, they're insuring that, if the system is not well liked, they will either have:

1. Account cancellations.

2. a LOT more work ahead of them when they have to fix it AGAIN.

Let's use a car analogy.

2 years ago, SOEyota came out with a sexy new car, the SOEyota Smugglera. They kept all the features under wraps like a good car company would (even though they didn't actually) but everyone knew it would be the fastest thing on 4 wheels.

Unfortunately in the rush, ALL the cars came out of the factory with 2 stroke lawnmower engines. Well, of course, everyone who bought the car not knowing this was upset. So SOEyota did the right thing, and said, "give us your cars back, we'll fix it."

So the customers all drove their sexy but fatally flawed Smuggleras back to the showrooms, and asked when the cars would be ready, and what kind of engine the customers wanted in the car. Surprisingly, the customers knew exactly what engine they wanted. A pushrod v-8 making a good 500 horses, just like the SOEyota flasghip, the Nerfherdola had. They even suggested ways to make the engine more efficient and responsive, and suggested the suspension be tuned to accomodate for the increase in power.

SOEyota thanked the customers for their input, and packed up all the cars to be taken back to the factory.

Flashforward 2 years. the SOEyota Smugglera is still in the factory being "worked on." The customers have no idea when they're getting their cars back, or if they will indeed have an engine worth their investment. They are restless, irritated, and ready to ignite.

but I'm rambling. The point is, SILENCE: good for initial and technological development. Especially from a business standpoint. BAD for trying to repair something 2 years into the game's existence that should have been fixed 2 years ago.

Another angle, and to build on Kecks post a bit... Communcation in our situation doesn't have to include any promises or specifics about deliverables at all.

I mean sure, it would be nice, but at this point I think we shouldn't be shooting for promises, but simply an ongoing conversation ... enough of a conversation that we're all talking about the same "game" and working from the same point. Its clear from so much that goes on around here that a lot of what we say, suggest, point out is seen differently from the other side because they're looking at things from a totally different context resulting in constant cries of 'that's not what we meant' 'that isn't important' 'why are you missing this' etc. That gap needs to be closed, and that can only be done through communication.

---

Ragnaat wrote:
Another angle, and to build on Kecks post a bit... Communcation in our situation doesn't have to include any promises or specifics about deliverables at all.

I mean sure, it would be nice, but at this point I think we shouldn't be shooting for promises, but simply an ongoing conversation ... enough of a conversation that we're all talking about the same "game" and working from the same point. Its clear from so much that goes on around here that a lot of what we say, suggest, point out is seen differently from the other side because they're looking at things from a totally different context resulting in constant cries of 'that's not what we meant' 'that isn't important' 'why are you missing this' etc. That gap needs to be closed, and that can only be done through communication.

---

A good point. I think I'd even rather see some communication from a Dev who "gets it" like Greenmarine did than actual tangible content made by someone who not only doesn't "get it", but doesn't even care...

There's been lots of additions lately seemingly designed by people who don't even get the whole Star Wars universe concept, much less any SW universe<->SWG specifics.

Message Edited by riotcontrol on 06-11-2005 05:37 PM

---

Taln2 wrote:

I noticed over the past few days that a lot of people are quipping about the lack of communication on behalf of development. While it's understandable, it also helps a bit to look at things through their eyes.

Thus, I'll take 5 minutes of my life out to explain "Strike Commander Syndrome" (strongly related to but not to be confused with "Chris Roberts Disease"). One thing to keep in mind is that I may be off on the dates, but it's not that relevant compared to the big picture.

After the crazy success of Wing Commander 1 and 2, in~1993, the guys at Origin decided to push the bar of conventional graphics engines and introduce high end technology - specifically bump mapping and gouraud shading - to their 3d games. At that time, those weren't new concepts, but nobody thought it was possible because only military-grade simulators could handle such graphics. Considering that, back then, the average80386 PC was considered hardcore and 80486s were coming out with amodern high-end Alienware PC price tag, and it's not hard to see why.

Origin found a way, though, but they weren't going to settle with just graphical upgrades.They also wanted to adda number ofextremebar-raising additions to the Strike Commander game, such as sophisticated plots,ship customization, etc, as compared to WC1 and WC2. Their mistake is that they figured the development of something so radicalonly take one year. After a few setbacks, they went live with a demo at the CES in 1994 under the belief that they would be ready to go live in a few months... a statement that arguably cost the company several million dollars.

With that demo they essentially let the cat out of the bag that shading and bump mapping were very much possible and impressive on 386/486 PCs. In response, the entire industry started incorporating those features in their games, effectively stealing Origin's thunder. That might not have been so bad if Strike Commander came out when it was supposed to - but it didn't. If I'm not mistaken it took them another 8 months on top of the 4 they predicted at the CES, and when Strike Commander did finally come out, it lost a lot of the wind it had carrying it (but I still bought it, hehe, it was a good game).

That said, the point is that the developers -- and I mean all game developers -- have to be extremely careful when they open their mouths. In most cases it's really best ifdevelopers remain quiet,stick to their jobs, and have an "it will be out when it's done" type mentality. Everything a developer states (they lose the ability to "say" or even "have an opinion" if you think about it)will be taken in and interpreted many different ways because the gamer masses are ravenous wolves that have an insatiable hunger for great games (well, maybe I am). You need not look further than the first 6-8 months of this game being live to see why. Back then,there was a good deal of communication, and a lot of promises made (battlefields, jedi, *cough* smuggler revamp) yetwe flamed the hell out of them anyway, and then called them liars when they decided to make development decisionson the fly, causing them to deviate from older statements -- whether they actually wanted to (due to lack of foresight) or not (due to game's physical limitations)!

Bottom line here is to be patient, hang in there, but keep voicing anyway. I'mabsolutely positivethe developersdoing the best they can to know what we want, and will give us the best they can. If not, then they won't be in business very long. History's pretty much proven that.

(Oh, on a side note to any industry followers out there, I honestly believe Gabe Newell caught a pretty bad case of Strike Commander Syndrome, but Half-Lifeis just such an impressive franchise that it won't die easily... but Team Fortress 2 on the other hand...)

---

I went out last night. I must therefore print and read this one paragraph at a time over the next 6-8hrs or else I fear complete shutdown of the medula oblongata (and that can't be good).

Or it could be as simple as...

Ignoring us has workedout fine for them fortwo years, why fix it if it isn't broken.

Seriously, what negative consequences have they had to endure as a result of our unhappiness? We're still here for the most part. I'd bet the attrition rate isn't even all that much higher for Smugglers than any other profession. And even if it were higher I'd be willing to bet it isn't significant enough to warrent a second thought from them.

---

maxtheusher wrote:

Let's use a car analogy.

2 years ago, SOEyota came out with a sexy new car, the SOEyota Smugglera. They kept all the features under wraps like a good car company would (even though they didn't actually) but everyone knew it would be the fastest thing on 4 wheels.

Unfortunately in the rush, ALL the cars came out of the factory with 2 stroke lawnmower engines. Well, of course, everyone who bought the car not knowing this was upset. So SOEyota did the right thing, and said, "give us your cars back, we'll fix it."

So the customers all drove their sexy but fatally flawed Smuggleras back to the showrooms, and asked when the cars would be ready, and what kind of engine the customers wanted in the car. Surprisingly, the customers knew exactly what engine they wanted. A pushrod v-8 making a good 500 horses, just like the SOEyota flasghip, the Nerfherdola had. They even suggested ways to make the engine more efficient and responsive, and suggested the suspension be tuned to accomodate for the increase in power.

SOEyota thanked the customers for their input, and packed up all the cars to be taken back to the factory.

Flashforward 2 years. the SOEyota Smugglera is still in the factory being "worked on." The customers have no idea when they're getting their cars back, or if they will indeed have an engine worth their investment. They are restless, irritated, and ready to ignite.

but I'm rambling. The point is, SILENCE: good for initial and technological development. Especially from a business standpoint. BAD for trying to repair something 2 years into the game's existence that should have been fixed 2 years ago.

---

One thing thats missing from this analogy. Something that is quite important in the game than is making cars...balance. When these customers want a better engine in their Smugglera, SOEyota doesnt have to worry about how the new car will interact with others on the highway.

Now, lets say the government had a mandate that ALL cars on the road must not be better or worse than any other car out there available. Now if SOEyota wants to make the Smugglera exactlly like the customers demand...

...keeping in mind, these Smugglera owners dont care about the the owners of the Bounty Huntress 2000, the Pikeman V8, the Jedi 4-runner, or any other model...

Well Bearing in mind that Pikeman are meant as 100% combat, bounty hunters have player bounty missions, and jedi have lightsabers...

I'm failing to see the point.

You're saying that if Smugglers can Smuggle, it would throw the WHOLE game out of balance? Because that's all we're asking for. Because gee, Jedi haven't thrown the game out of balance ever, and they've never gotten any revamps...

If you can show me how Smuggler has ANYTHING to do with balance, I'd love to hear it.

---

maxtheusher wrote:
There's one fundamental flaw in this argument. They aren't keeping tight-lipped about some industry revolutionizing new technology. They're talking about our profession. THAT matters not to Blizzard, or Coleco, or whatever hot new company is looking for an edge, only to us, the smugglers.

By keeping quiet, the "You'll see it when it's done" method if you will, they're insuring that, if the system is not well liked, they will either have:

1. Account cancellations.

2. a LOT more work ahead of them when they have to fix it AGAIN.

---