Smuggler Archive
Thread: My 1 Man Protest
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Daturaze
Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:12 am
#1
Well, in the thread Sigmund started about the change in the TOS, making keeping the weapons a now RL Bad Thing I stated that I just won't slice anymore.
Well, I've modified that position somewhat, for my steady customers who I've dealt with for some time I'll still slice. If a stranger sends me a tell asking me to slice I reply back,
"Thanks for the tell, but with the changes of the TOS I will no longer slice for people I don't know"
This of course generates a conversation where the person asks WT*??? So in each case I explain that I don't want to set myself up for potential griefing if something goes wrong and tell them about the idea for the Slicing Interface much like the Image Designers.
The results? In the last couple ofdays I've told the story to a large number of people who've all been amazingly supportive of the idea, but hate my gutsbecause I won't slice.
What's this proving? That I can annoy a large number of people in a very short time!! :>
For those of you who hate the idea of an interface then I'm annoying you too, for that I apologize sincerely to my Smuggler brothern, but I think it's an idea who's time has come - before the TOS mentioned slicing I wouldn't have cared but now that there is a official avenue to ban a Smuggler someone will eventually exploit it and I think it's careless of SOE not to put mechanisms to protect a class they've singled out as ripe for fraud.
So this is my little pet project - educate the masses. I figure if enough people can't get their weapons sliced, and keep hearing the same story, they may start generating waves in their little circles as well.
Cheers
Dat
SpinningCloud
Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:38 am
#2
I've been slicing for well over a year now and have never, accidently or purposefully, 'kept' another players item.
I guess I'm not sure what the problem is here. Is the worry that some player will send a complaint claiming you kept an item that you gave back? Or without the threat of keeping the item they won't pay for the slice?
Usually I get paid up front for the slice but even of all the times I gave the item back first I have only been stiffed one time. That, btw, exactly equals the number of times an RL client has stiffed me for engineering consulting fees.
So what exactly is the worry here? Has anyone actually been screwed in some way because of this?
BTW, I'm not critisizing...I'm just curious why the uproar.
Jaguarrr
Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:49 am
#3
Uh... we don't trust the customer because he/she is not a smuggler?
Daturaze
Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:51 am
#4
What?? <GASP> you don't see the point <Rolling Eyes>
Nah - just joking Spinning 
I just realized that my post sounded far more "activist" then the reality.
Until now, for the most part I've sliced for free, slicing isn't my money maker, my rifleman skills are. Over time I've build up internal rules like "Never slice a container" because I was tired of explaining that there is usually never anything good in the things, etc. So basically the only time I slice is when friends call me up, otherwise, if a stranger sends a tell and doesn't start it friendly, I don't slice. So I don't do a lot of slicing is what I'm trying to say
What bugs me is more the principal of the matter. If SOE wants to make keeping weapons from lack of payment a RL Bad thing in their TOS then at least provide a mechanism for us to protect ourselves. Do I think Smugglers are dishonest - no for the most part - do I think that ignorant players may think a smuggler is ripping them off at some point? Yes, Yes I do. If a Smuggler gets into an argument with a client and gets reported, their fate comes down to a CSR at the moment which, in my experience will either be a very good thing, or a very bad thing. At the very least it's an annoying thing, and potentially open to abuse.
So, that's my beef, more principal than any actual bad happenings.
LaughingWolf
Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:07 am
#5
Personally never kept a client item nor had any problme being paid, but then again I just started slicing for the public.
But if most of the stories from that "chuckles" thread are true, there seem to be a problem about non paying customers and customers who are afraid of being stolen.
But if most of the stories from that "chuckles" thread are true, there seem to be a problem about non paying customers and customers who are afraid of being stolen.
Ternque01
Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:41 am
#6
Yea, the real problem is someone claiming that a smuggler didn't give back his/her weapon when they did.
Couple this with the fact that a large number of people don't want to pay for the service and will report smugglers who don't return their weapons (well no joke, they didn't pay).
I think the solution to all of this mayhem is this: have them tip you before you slice.
I have never had a problem returning a weapon to someone. Well, actually, a few times trade broke and I couldn't. I had to find some creative ways of returning their weapons
LaughingWolf
Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:52 pm
#7
And of course some clients will be very nervous about giving you their weapon or armor AND tipping you. Because then a fraudulent Smuggler could steal them of both items and the cash.
Mmmm altough.... you have a point. Because then we can tell to the nervous client "Look , you paid, if I don't return your stuff you can report me and get me banned, so you are safe". So doing it that way would mean the policy is helping us instead of threatening us.
Altough I do still think a secured transasction window would be soo simpler than all that. hehe
Mmmm altough.... you have a point. Because then we can tell to the nervous client "Look , you paid, if I don't return your stuff you can report me and get me banned, so you are safe". So doing it that way would mean the policy is helping us instead of threatening us.
Altough I do still think a secured transasction window would be soo simpler than all that. hehe
Message Edited by LaughingWolf on 11-26-2004 02:54 PM
Ternque01
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:11 am
#8
I have never been a fan of the secure trade window, nor do I think that smugglers should get into real trouble for stealing a weapon.
Part of the real love I have for smuggler is dealing with the public in a way that leaves them completely vulnerable, then pulling through for them. When people have to take a risk and it pays for them, especially in a way that fosters trust with another player, that is the ultimate in gaming experience.
The one true feature of smuggling, especially how we deal with other players, involves the fact that they take a risk on me. This goes from unpredictable slices to people stealing weapons.
If they institute a special trade window, this will be a huge step back as far as my interest in this profession goes. I am kinda urked that stealing weapons is a banable offense, even though I have never stolen a weapon/armor, and have never cheated my customers. It makes me irrate.
I want the risk! I love the experience of dealing with people when they don't know what quite to expect from the situation. Now, we are going to feast on the experience of dealing with those who are going to expect the sameexact thing, regarless of what smuggler they go to. Where is the character of trusting only certain smugglers? Wherehasa smuggler's reputation gone? You thought people acting like they are the boss over slicers was bad before. Next step is smuggling whored out like fast food. Your way, right away, sir! To hell with that! I want to grip my customers by the marbles and take them through a trip where I the smuggler deliver on my illegal services in a less than safe and certain fashion.
Want pickles on that?
Daturaze
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:15 am
#9
Ternque01 wrote:
I have never been a fan of the secure trade window, nor do I think that smugglers should get into real trouble for stealing a weapon.
Part of the real love I have for smuggler is dealing with the public in a way that leaves them completely vulnerable, then pulling through for them. When people have to take a risk and it pays for them, especially in a way that fosters trust with another player, that is the ultimate in gaming experience.
The one true feature of smuggling, especially how we deal with other players, involves the fact that they take a risk on me. This goes from unpredictable slices to people stealing weapons.
If they institute a special trade window, this will be a huge step back as far as my interest in this profession goes. I am kinda urked that stealing weapons is a banable offense, even though I have never stolen a weapon/armor, and have never cheated my customers. It makes me irrate.
I want the risk! I love the experience of dealing with people when they don't know what quite to expect from the situation. Now, we are going to feast on the experience of dealing with those who are going to expect the sameexact thing, regarless of what smuggler they go to. Where is the character of trusting only certain smugglers? Wherehasa smuggler's reputation gone? You thought people acting like they are the boss over slicers was bad before. Next step is smuggling whored out like fast food. Your way, right away, sir! To hell with that! I want to grip my customers by the marbles and take them through a trip where I the smuggler deliver on my illegal services in a less than safe and certain fashion.
Want pickles on that?
/agree
/absolutely agree
What I dislike is that now in terms of vulnerability the customer has the upper hand on us with the threat of report. True, most of the reports will be unfounded - but our judge is a CSR who may or may not be having a bad day. That's what sticks in my craw the most.
<sigh>
Ternque01
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:22 am
#10
Yea, what happens if a customer refuses to take his/her weapon back and calls a CSR to grief a smuggler???
Sometimes trade windows don't function as well. WTH?
Having a smuggler's marbles in a vice for something he/she can't control is one thing if it applies to theImperial law or rival smugglers, it is an entirely different thing to have them at riskbecause a player chooses to make a purposefully false report just to get them banned.
I am actually having a serious issue with this and am going to PM Wes about this huge opportunity for grief.
LaughingWolf
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:25 am
#11
Mmm I admit, you DO make a compeling case. 
Maybe you are right and this system is good for our game experience, but is it good for the game as a whole?
Thoses few who have been stolen by a Smuggler surely disagree, altough a point can be made that it is part of the "dealing with a Smuggler" game.
Edit because I just saw the last post: Yes, it is part of why I have been pushing for a secured trade window, to avoid that threat of griefing against us. The "pay me first" solution work, but a lot of clients might feel edgy not only trusting us with their items but trusting us with the pay in advance.
Maybe you are right and this system is good for our game experience, but is it good for the game as a whole?
Thoses few who have been stolen by a Smuggler surely disagree, altough a point can be made that it is part of the "dealing with a Smuggler" game.
Edit because I just saw the last post: Yes, it is part of why I have been pushing for a secured trade window, to avoid that threat of griefing against us. The "pay me first" solution work, but a lot of clients might feel edgy not only trusting us with their items but trusting us with the pay in advance.
Message Edited by LaughingWolf on 11-26-2004 03:27 PM
Ternque01
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:52 am
#12
LaughingWolf wrote:
Mmm I admit, you DO make a compeling case.
Maybe you are right and this system is good for our game experience, but is it good for the game as a whole?
Thoses few who have been stolen by a Smuggler surely disagree, altough a point can be made that it is part of the "dealing with a Smuggler" game.
Edit because I just saw the last post: Yes, it is part of why I have been pushing for a secured trade window, to avoid that threat of griefing against us. The "pay me first" solution work, but a lot of clients might feel edgy not only trusting us with their items but trusting us with the pay in advance.
Message Edited by LaughingWolf on 11-26-2004 03:27 PM
Slicing is the only thing about our profession that allows a smuggler to roleplay being sketchy to other players, the ONLY thing. You take that away and everything we do can be put into a little container in players minds that is labeled "Smugglers aren't dangerous people" and stored away never to be analyzed again. Everytime anyone deals with you, it will be from the perspective that they will always get what they want and that you are a just a neutral force in their gaming experience - just another anonymous person to do a mundane monkey task. Blase'.
Slicing is the only thing that makes them approach a smuggler and say, "can I really trust this guy?" Losing that would be the end of this profession to me. There would be no point in playing one. Period.
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