Smuggler Archive
Thread: HOTDOG tackles the tough problems in the CU...
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GanymedePharuu
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:07 pm
#1
hotdog for president.
about the BARC and big ugly lizard, i doubt they'll make it so you can create one and sell it off and create a new one.
they said they'll be tradable. but that seems unlikely unless it's handled like a sorosub yacht deed where the deed generates the BARC rather than the player's account generating it.
and the lizard... i dunno what i'm gonna do with a big ugly lizard.
either way i'm gonna pre-order the digital download. a new type of bike isn't that important to me.
i'd rather they included a whole bunch of new vehicle types in a Vehicle Revamp!
about the BARC and big ugly lizard, i doubt they'll make it so you can create one and sell it off and create a new one.
they said they'll be tradable. but that seems unlikely unless it's handled like a sorosub yacht deed where the deed generates the BARC rather than the player's account generating it.
and the lizard... i dunno what i'm gonna do with a big ugly lizard.
either way i'm gonna pre-order the digital download. a new type of bike isn't that important to me.
i'd rather they included a whole bunch of new vehicle types in a Vehicle Revamp!
HOTDOG
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:22 pm
#2
GanymedePharuu wrote:
hotdog for president.
HOTDOG for president....
hmmmmmmm...
Just so you know, If I start a thread with HOTDOG in the title. You KNOW I'm gonna go on for a long time about something.
And If I start a thread with Tevin Stargunner or Wasodo or any other character name then you know I'm gonna tell a story about what happend to me online last night.
...haven't had one of those in a while. C'MON REVAMP!!!
Speaking of revamps. That vehiclular thing was pretty cherry.
Baldrog
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:24 pm
#3
Whats a BARC? I know ya get the lizard for pre-ording but how do you get the BARC?
EnderUK
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:27 pm
#4
I really don't see what these people cry about.
PvE can't get any worst than having to be a Jedi, rifleman or swordsman to compete.
PvP can't get any worst than having a group of Jedi (I'll put in CMs, stackers and Rifleman in here as well) come in a destory a group with non FOTM templates
Will the game be balanced? I suriously doubt it, I've yet to find any game werea class/template was not greater than nearly every other. To me that's the problem and though the gap maybe be reduced I doubt it will go away compeletely.
yimaz
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:35 pm
#5
Sorry to say this but it's been buggin me for days. I really hate when people tell other people to stop crying. Anytime someone is pissed about something (right or wrong) someone has to say stop crying.......The whole point of these forums are so people can express their point of view so stop crying about people crying. Unless your physic you dont know if the post is expressing frustration, whining, or an intelligent observation. Do people whine, yes but it's like the easy way out toput down someones post with a stop crying everytime someone does not agree with another person and its just weak and yes Im guilty of it as well.....
With all the BS between the Dev's and Smuggler community have we just been crying this whole time or did we have a valid point?
Sorry this is not directed at anyone person I just felt it needed to be said.
Message Edited by yimaz on 04-14-2005 04:50 PM
HOTDOG
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:49 pm
#6
Baldrog wrote:
Whats a BARC? I know ya get the lizard for pre-ording but how do you get the BARC?
BARC is short for uh, ...well, it's on the home page-
In short this is a REALLY SAHWEEEEEET lookin' bike that comes with the bundle pack (SWG, JTL and RotW sold together) that will drop in your friendly neighborhood store at the end of May.
You can see pics on the homepage as well.
As for people crying...
I agree. This IS the place for it.
Personally when it comes to the CU I CAN see a lot of problems but I understand that the way the game is now- well, it just can't go on that way.
A lot of the "whiners" do have valid points but they tend to get catergorized with those who are- just having a hard time accepting change.
It's all a process.
This new system WILL work out but only if we raise our voices about what's wrong with it.
It would help though, if people thought through what they were complainning about instead of jumping to conclusions and assumptions...
again, it's ALL a process.
DRWolfe
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:50 pm
#7
yimaz wrote:Sorry to say this but it's been buggin me for days. I really hate when people tell other people to stop crying. Anytime someone is pissed about something (right or wrong) someone has to say stop crying.......The whole point of these forums are so people can express their point of view so stop crying about people crying. Unless your physic you dont know if the post is expressing frustration, whinning, or an intelligent observation....
And the worst is when a reply is nothing more than "Cry more noob". You can find this one a lot on the Jedi forums, usually posted by a trolling BH responding to a Jedi's lament over the latest nerf to Jedi or exploit BH are using.
*NOTE: By the above example, I am in no way placing one profession over another or stereotyping a profession's players. I've seen the same response (or worse) posted by Jedi and other professions. I'm fully aware it's the player, not the profession, and I would not want to put any good players in the same "place" as the lower forms that inhabit all professions, and I appreciate the same courtesy as I am not like other Jedi you may know, though I don't mind being lumped in with 99% of the Smugglers (I'm sure we have our own less-desirables, hence the 1%, but I don't think I've met them).
Whew!
yimaz
Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:57 pm
#8
It's a matter of taking it too far on both ends of any agrument and CU is a good example. A great many people that love it say "stop crying" and refuse to see that their might be a valid point to some issues with CUand the people that hate it all want to leave and refuse to find anything good about it. Im just tired of people using "stop crying" as the answer to any and all problems, as I said some people are crying but it's a term used now in a who win's contexted which kinda sucks and ruins good debate. It's like calling people carebears cause they like PVE and calling people griefers because they like PVP.../shrug
Yim is done ranting. 
Cloudchasing
Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:10 pm
#9
Ok HOTDOG, you make good points, however...
HOTDOG wrote:
1. Level Based Combat.
Yes, I can see the suckitude that people are complaining about.
The emporer has no clothes- If you can SEE what level MOBs you can mess with and can't mess with it's unemersive.
But IS it?
We used to look at HAM and resistances before we took on creatures anyway so what is the big deal? What is it that we are REALLY lamenting here?but there is no reason with all the profession balancing that creatures cant have a static damage/health comparative to their level. I don't mind seeing the level/con of a mob, but I have real problems with it hitting me with a 10x modifier simply because I'm 7 levels below it, and 7 levels is as little as 10% difference.
I think it's more that creatures, with even a slightly higher level, are programmed to pwn us if we try to take them on.
There is no chance that maybe, with your skills and wit- you will be able to defeat the beast.
There are no if, ands or buts about it. If they hit you, you WILL be pwned. This makes no sense to me, see above
That rush you got when you whacked your first Krayt. That feeling of accomplishment- that sometimes took you an hour to do- has been taken away.
But it's not just about being able to solo a Krayt.
This extends to Corellian Butterflies- Baz Nitches- Night Sisters.
We are being robbed of feeling like we accomplished something with our skills and wit. YES, this is why I always loved SWG, our toons skills and our own wit would let us use strategy to defeat something that we probably shouldn't have been able to beat (just for your info, I played without buffs for the first 3 months that I played, I felt they were like cheating, tho I eventually changed my mind)
Really though, when your skills are using F5 to spam your mind attack and your wit is the smarts to get uber buffed and fed before you don your super suit of 80% across the board armor, what are we talkin' about here? But the whole point of this new combat system is to keep you(supposedly) from just hitting F5 over and over. Now, with this system, we can simply control-Leftclick on whatever attack we want to spam, and the system will do it for us, yeah, thats immersive
Have no worries friends. You WILL once again defeat the new MOB beast. Someone will figure out a way to solo Krayts again. I have no doubt about that. Yeah, this is the most disappointing part, simply as a TKM, group with 7 other TKM, and then with your group level being maxed out, you can go solo that Krayt, or Nightsister, because your defenses just magicly jumped somehow making that Krayt hit you for far less than in the current system.
Until then. This system WILL balance out the PvE experience.
You will be able to fight challenging creatures and you will have to run sometimes.
You won't spend hours getting buffs to earn money to get more buffs the next time you go out to earn money to get buffs.
Yes. I can still see the suckitude of KNOWING when a creature is going to hand you your ass.
But SOMEONE will say, "I'm going to figure out a way to do this" and they will do it.
It was like that with holo-ing for Jedi. It was like that when they amped the HAM on Krayts before. But someone figured out how to do it.
That's how people work.
PvE has beenoffhandedly insulted and soloing has been kicked squarely in the nuts but in the end it's all for the better. Again, see what I just wrote.
PvP on the other hand has been REZZED. I can't agree with you more here.
Well, as long as they don't apply the level damage averages to PvP and...
I'm not flaming you at all, simply disagreeing with key points. I for the most part really like a lot of the changes aside from the fact that you can't tell what's attacking you (imagine attacking a base where there are like 50 players in a 10 meter square, and someone is beating on you, but youcan't tell who. How are you going to target that"one" guy?) I'm not a big fan of the particle effects, but I can easily live with it. I really don't mind the levels of the mobs either, even the wildly out of place level 150 gubbers. BUT I simply cannot support anything that will give an already very tough mob damage modifiers against us.
You see, EQ2 has a system in place that gaining a new level actually makes you tougher, therefore, enemies higher than you suddenly becoming easier makes a lot of sense. With each level you are stronger, have more health, your AC goes up, and you have a higher to-hit. ALL you stats get a boost when you level there. How does that work with SWG? When we gain a new skill we MIGHT gain some more def, or speed, or something. But we don't receive an increase in ALL our stats. And I don't think we should.
Basically, I am ok with all the CU ( I can even live with the lack of being able to easily find what is attacking you) but I cannot live with the level-based combat as long as they include these damage modifiers.
I love your idea about the BARC speeder tho, classic
Crillan
Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:18 pm
#10
DRWolfe wrote:
Crillan wrote:
If both are tradeable and both are able to be /gimmemytoyfor20k then it really doesn't matter which one you get. Just trade 1 for 1 with someone that has the other and then /gimmemytoyfor20k again and you have both.
I doubt it'll work that way. If you can retrieve one if it's lost (and they just about have to make it that way), you probably have to trade away the thingamabob-whachamacallit they put in your inventory that would let you retrieve a new one. Then the other person does the retrieve. At least that seems the proper way to handle it...
If it's like the current bonuses, i.e. the flash speeder and goggles, you can get new ones by using a command any time you want. The devs specifically said they will be tradeable. Put 2 and 2 together and that's how I see it. The yacht is different since it's a veteran reward so they handle it differently since the deed to call a new yacht isn't tradeable.
WesBelden
Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:14 pm
#11
HOTDOG wrote:
1. Level Based Combat.
Have no worries friends. You WILL once again defeat the new MOB beast. Someone will figure out a way to solo Krayts again. I have no doubt about that.
I actually like the level/con side of the level system. I would far prefer each level to hit/defend at a set rate of damage/defence, rather than have level dictate how much extra/less they damage you by, but I guess that system would take even longer to balance and that's time we don't have
2. Weapon Certifications.
...they leave the higher level certs alone.
Being able to use any weapon is a good and realistic idea. Being able use any special is ALSO very cool.
BUT-
Let's not get CRAZY!! Weapons define combat professions in a LOT of ways and you don't want to destroy that do you!?
We all know that the higher the weapon is in the tree- the better it is.
Why not limit the cross certs to novice weapons or a couple of boxes just above that and leave the tier 3- Master Certs for their specific Professions?
THAT'S BALANCE, RIGHT!?
From what I understand, key iconic weapons (those seen in several master boxes) will remain uniquely certed to their professions, so to some extent, this is already taken care of. You also have to take into account that defences/accuracey etc. are tied into what weapon you have equipped, so, a Master Rifleman without master level pistol mods couldn't use sniper shot witha rifle, then yank out a pistol when an enemy closed in range and have anywhere near the same effect. We'll have to wait and see how this plays out, but in theory, it shouldn't distort the lines between professions any.
nerfherder321
Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:17 pm
#12
wes 2 other things!
No more Slice EXP and no more Spice crafting exp
both are used in the FS grind
can you report this to the devs
HOTDOG
Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:05 am
#13
1. Level Based Combat.
Yes, I can see the suckitude that people are complaining about.
The emporer has no clothes- If you can SEE what level MOBs you can mess with and can't mess with it's unemersive.
But IS it?
We used to look at HAM and resistances before we took on creatures anyway so what is the big deal? What is it that we are REALLY lamenting here?
I think it's more that creatures, with even a slightly higher level, are programmed to pwn us if we try to take them on.
There is no chance that maybe, with your skills and wit- you will be able to defeat the beast.
There are no if, ands or buts about it. If they hit you, you WILL be pwned.
That rush you got when you whacked your first Krayt. That feeling of accomplishment- that sometimes took you an hour to do- has been taken away.
But it's not just about being able to solo a Krayt.
This extends to Corellian Butterflies- Baz Nitches- Night Sisters.
We are being robbed of feeling like we accomplished something with our skills and wit.
Really though, when your skills are using F5 to spam your mind attack and your wit is the smarts to get uber buffed and fed before you don your super suit of 80% across the board armor, what are we talkin' about here?
Have no worries friends. You WILL once again defeat the new MOB beast. Someone will figure out a way to solo Krayts again. I have no doubt about that.
Until then. This system WILL balance out the PvE experience.
You will be able to fight challenging creatures and you will have to run sometimes.
You won't spend hours getting buffs to earn money to get more buffs the next time you go out to earn money to get buffs.
Yes. I can still see the suckitude of KNOWING when a creature is going to hand you your ass.
But SOMEONE will say, "I'm going to figure out a way to do this" and they will do it.
It was like that with holo-ing for Jedi. It was like that when they amped the HAM on Krayts before. But someone figured out how to do it.
That's how people work.
PvE has beenoffhandedly insulted and soloing has been kicked squarely in the nuts but in the end it's all for the better.
PvP on the other hand has been REZZED.
Well, as long as they don't apply the level damage averages to PvP and...
2. Weapon Certifications.
...they leave the higher level certs alone.
Being able to use any weapon is a good and realistic idea. Being able use any special is ALSO very cool.
BUT-
Let's not get CRAZY!! Weapons define combat professions in a LOT of ways and you don't want to destroy that do you!?
We all know that the higher the weapon is in the tree- the better it is.
Why not limit the cross certs to novice weapons or a couple of boxes just above that and leave the tier 3- Master Certs for their specific Professions?
THAT'S BALANCE, RIGHT!?
3. The BARC speeder and the Varatractly thingie....
Um. These are some really F'in cool assed toys are they not?
*nods head*
But everyone that logs in tonight can hang up any ideas of scooting around on a BARC and if you go to the store to purchase RotW you can forget riding the dragon-dactyl thing too. That is unless you feel like buying an EXTRA copy of SWG and JTL or paying online for your RotW.
HOWEVER...
These items ARE tradeable.
Which means- in the case of the dinosaur bitey thing- it will cost you 8 million and an ADK and in the case of the BARC....
waitaminute...
If I get a BARC and it gets 'sploded like my Flash Speeder OFTEN does. Can I pay 20k to get a new one?
If so-
Why not get the box set-
Get my BARC.
Sell it for 8 million and an ADK
Pay 20k for a new one
rinse and repeat....
...gotta go to the store folks. I'll finish this later....
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