Smuggler Archive

I both agree and disagree with facets of the AS person's statements.

Most glaringly... while the Armorsmith Corr was let go, it's been stated that this was done NOT because the Corr spoke out, but the MANNER in which it was done. Specifically, there are rules governing how communication is to be handled by Correspondents to keep the information flow managable and so forth. The AS Corr broke those rules, and was removed as a result, a fact which the ASes as a whole seem to be ignoring. Frankly, I would have too. The point of a Corr is stated to be to take the community issues, compile them, condense them, weed out the fluff and give the hard, solid, distilled feedback to the devs, and to pass back what information they're asked to. the fact of the matter is, that in telling the players to flood the Devs with PMs and the like, they were violating the Correspondant's role in communication flagrantly, ad were therefore removed. No warning need be given-- Correspondants are expected to abide by the rules they were given wth the position. End of story.

Does that mean I think the AS community doesn't have some points? No, not at all. Dev communication needs to be better. Devs have often wornged us, etc. But I don't view the AS removal as one of those, or part of it. The simple fact is, when you agree to something as part of a position like Correspondant, you either abide by it, or be removed. That's been a big beef of mine in this hole AS fiasco-- it was WRONG of the Corr to do what was done, however well-intentioned it was. And noone seems willing to admit that.

I'm as frustrated with the Devs as anyone, over time. I'm a Smuggler, I've always been a Smuggler. Since launch. Even when I dropped Smugger for a change of pace and to try out other, less-broken professions, I was a Smuggler. So I'm not saying it's all roses and wine and sweet, sweet peaches. I've made quite a number of suggestions, that a lot of people thought were fantastic(a cargo system for JTL comes to mind-- it would have given us some more things to do, albeit player-made "content", and would have made some other professions tan pilot just a little bit more happy, too), but I don't know if the Devs even ever saw any of them. So I know that the Devs have been far from perfect, as well.

I'd also point out that the forums are also, largely propaganda from a player prospective. This is based on the feeling I'm getting from the chatter on the test server itself. While the forums show a majority disliking the CU in general, and many others disliking certain details or this or that, the server itself seems much more evenly split.

What's my point? It's not saying the Devs are acting perfectly and it's our fault as players. It's also not saying the Devs are the worst ones I've ever seen. There's good, there's bad, there's ranges in between. I believe the truth of the state of the game lays somewhere in-between what we believe the Devs think and what the loudest of us players are saying. Devs need to talk to us more and let us know they're listening. Players need to stop overreacting to every little thing they don't like, need to stop assuming the Devs don't listen, and actually try things once in a while before they make up thier mind, because many don't. Both sides need to be more flexible. Players need less hostility. Devs need less defensiveness. Some of the Devs are doing great in general. I think Helios and Blixtev are more towards what we should be getting from all devs at a minimum. I think that the way that the Commando forum *tends* to treat Helios in general is how the rest of us need to act. We need more GreenMarines. We need more Smugglers-talking-to-Green, because despite the lack of progress at this point, I think we can agree that was *good* interaction.

I'll be writing in, because I have some perhaps unusual views on this, And I think they deserve to be heard as much as anyone's.

Evidently I'm super jaded, but quite frankly I resent LA for taking this step now while certain other professions that have been in far worse condition since launch have never been deigned worthy of their involvement.

Maybe all this smuggler love (at long, long last) is clouding my judgment, but a few concerns notwithstanding, I've got faith in the CU.

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JTGAlpha wrote:

I think I'd rather take my chances with the SOE devs than LA. I've heard a bit of this and that here and there and well, it seems to me that we don't have the FULL story of what goes on behind the scenes and I'd caution everyone to consider the point that PERHAPS so much goofy stuff happens with the devs, and timelines and what not BECAUSE LA sticks its snout in. SOE makes MMO's. LA does not. Just something to keep in mind.

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Without getting myself into too much trouble...

Bingo.

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have spent a while today speaking with people from Lucas Arts and they have advised me to document all information possible regarding our opinions and how the player base as a majority is being ignored by the devs.

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I don't think that's a true statement. maybe you could say that the majority of frequent posters and griefers on the boards are being ignored by the devs... Clearly the majority of players never come on to these forums and of those who come over, many never post.

Sorry. I'm not buying it. If a red-letter glowy appeared and told me that LA was looking for feedback, then I'd consider it. Otherwise, no thanks. I've seen too many internet hoaxes to buy this one.

Note: This is not directed at Zane... this is my opinion of the original post. Smuggler-love, bro.

Message Edited by dlc3007 on 04-15-2005 08:54 PM

I'm of two minds on LA taking firmer hands on the thing. EDIT: Assuming they are. Given what's occured in the AS forum of late and in light of dlc's comment, I'm no longer willing to stand firm in the belief this isn't another attempt to make an end-run around the normal channels to get their voice heard on issues that may or may not exist in the next patch or any patch following before release. IF LA wants our feedback, they have redname forum accounts, too.

On the one hand... LA has done well by me a LOT more often than SOE has in the past, and they care rather more about the fact that this is supposed to be a Star Wars game than I suspect SOE does... by the simple premise of them being LUCASArts. I actually suspect that a lot of my issues with the game stems from too much SOE and not enough LA, primarily due to SOE being more concerned with their own franchises than someone else's. they've shown in the past that they'd rather put money and effort into EQ2, for instance, than SWG (back when EQ2 was coming, it was pretty damn obvious what they cared most about). This is just understandable. Why spend gobs of money on someone else's baby when you've got one of your own to attend to?

This part, I feel is LA's fault. They, as I recall, were considering studios like Mythic and Cryptic, I think(don't remember, though), to handle SWG, but went with SOE because they saw experience there, and the infrastructure was in place(server facilities, etc). Understandable, and somewhat laudable. But what they missed out on, I think, is a fair amount of heart. I have no doubt that our devs love Star Wars and believe in the game and all that important stuff. But I don't think that SOE itself does, and therein is a problem. I'd be interested to see what we'd get from the same Devs working in an LA office, honestly. This may just be because I've actually toured the LA offices, and got a look at them actually at work, and while it was many years ago at this point... well, the impression sticks. Environment means a lot.

On the other hand... I very much want to say "NOT NOW, for the love of all things meaningful and good". If we need to shake things up like that, wait until after the CU, please. I realize that a lot of peole are unhappy, are predicting the death of the game, etc, etc. But on the flip side... Many of us are back, for CU. Many of us testing it seem to think it's enjoyable. A LOT of people I talk to now no longer play Live, and won't until CU is published. A lot of people are likely to leave if they feel like there's no point to playing live for another... how long will it take? 3 months? 6? More?

I don't mind at all if LA feels throwing its weight around is needed. I happen to think it is, too. But I also think the timing is critical, and the timing should NOT be before this particular deadline.

Message Edited by CapnKate on 04-15-2005 09:13 PM

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CapnKate wrote:
I'm of two minds on LA taking firmer hands on the thing.

On the one hand... LA has done well by me a LOT more often than SOE has in the past, and they care rather more about the fact that this is supposed to be a Star Wars game than I suspect SOE does... by the simple premise of them being LUCASArts. I actually suspect that a lot of my issues with the game stems from too much SOE and not enough LA, primarily due to SOE being more concerned with their own franchises than someone else's. they've shown in the past that they'd rather put money and effort into EQ2, for instance, than SWG (back when EQ2 was coming, it was pretty damn obvious what they cared most about). This is just understandable. Why spend gobs of money on someone else's baby when you've got one of your own to attend to?

This part, I feel is LA's fault. They, as I recall, were considering studios like Mythic and Cryptic, I think(don't remember, though), to handle SWG, but went with SOE because they saw experience there, and the infrastructure was in place(server facilities, etc). Understandable, and somewhat laudable. But what they missed out on, I think, is a fair amount of heart. I have no doubt that our devs love Star Wars and believe in the game and all that important stuff. But I don't think that SOE itself does, and therein is a problem. I'd be interested to see what we'd get from the same Devs working in an LA office, honestly. This may just be because I've actually toured the LA offices, and got a look at them actually at work, and while it was many years ago at this point... well, the impression sticks. Environment means a lot.

On the other hand... I very much want to say "NOT NOW, for the love of all things meaningful and good". If we need to shake things up like that, wait until after the CU, please. I realize that a lot of peole are unhappy, are predicting the death of the game, etc, etc. But on the flip side... Many of us are back, for CU. Many of us testing it seem to think it's enjoyable. A LOT of people I talk to now no longer play Live, and won't until CU is published. A lot of people are likely to leave if they feel like there's no point to playing live for another... how long will it take? 3 months? 6? More?

I don't mind at all if LA feels throwing its weight around is needed. I happen to think it is, too. But I also think the timing is critical, and the timing should NOT be before this particular deadline.

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You would be shocked if you knew what I knew about LA's 'handling' of SWG.

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MISTagent01 wrote:

You would be shocked if you knew what I knew about LA's 'handling' of SWG.

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I work in Corporate America (tm) coding database applications for financial systems. You couldn't shock me.

Some additionals have been pointed out to me that make me start to *really* suspect the veracity of this thing. If LA wanted our feedback:

1. Why Snail-mail? Obviously we all have email, obviously sorting through S-Mail is an awfully big headache, especially for a company that does almost everything electronically these days(for instance, they don't want my resume in hardcopy. Digital, please.)

2. Why the existing tech support email, which is already piled with stuff from all the other games? Especially since a flood from SWG players would make it that much harder to sort through things and to their jobs, and setting up a special account would take... what, 30 seconds? For that matter, why send it to tech support? they don't make policy decisions. They try to work out what's wrong with games that won't install, etc, etc. They're not a feedback line. WTH??

3. Why aren't *they* posting? Surely if this is all true, we'd have seen a post by now from a red LA name by now.

Maybe it's true. But the more I think about it, the less and less like LA this seems.

LucasArts, in my experience, asks for email. They set up a special account just to deal with something of this size, which goes to someone appropriate. And they sure as heck don't just tell a player to pass it along if it's any real request.

The last time LA wanted feedback (which was pretty damn recent),
it had a redname post(in this case, Tiggs), asked for very specific things, and had an email associated with it that made sense.

So, in summation, I'm changing my position on this. Until I see soemthing that convinces me this is a genuine request, I'm crying foul.

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MISTagent01 wrote:

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CapnKate wrote:
I'm of two minds on LA taking firmer hands on the thing.

On the one hand... LA has done well by me a LOT more often than SOE has in the past, and they care rather more about the fact that this is supposed to be a Star Wars game than I suspect SOE does... by the simple premise of them being LUCASArts. I actually suspect that a lot of my issues with the game stems from too much SOE and not enough LA, primarily due to SOE being more concerned with their own franchises than someone else's. they've shown in the past that they'd rather put money and effort into EQ2, for instance, than SWG (back when EQ2 was coming, it was pretty damn obvious what they cared most about). This is just understandable. Why spend gobs of money on someone else's baby when you've got one of your own to attend to?

This part, I feel is LA's fault. They, as I recall, were considering studios like Mythic and Cryptic, I think(don't remember, though), to handle SWG, but went with SOE because they saw experience there, and the infrastructure was in place(server facilities, etc). Understandable, and somewhat laudable. But what they missed out on, I think, is a fair amount of heart. I have no doubt that our devs love Star Wars and believe in the game and all that important stuff. But I don't think that SOE itself does, and therein is a problem. I'd be interested to see what we'd get from the same Devs working in an LA office, honestly. This may just be because I've actually toured the LA offices, and got a look at them actually at work, and while it was many years ago at this point... well, the impression sticks. Environment means a lot.

On the other hand... I very much want to say "NOT NOW, for the love of all things meaningful and good". If we need to shake things up like that, wait until after the CU, please. I realize that a lot of peole are unhappy, are predicting the death of the game, etc, etc. But on the flip side... Many of us are back, for CU. Many of us testing it seem to think it's enjoyable. A LOT of people I talk to now no longer play Live, and won't until CU is published. A lot of people are likely to leave if they feel like there's no point to playing live for another... how long will it take? 3 months? 6? More?

I don't mind at all if LA feels throwing its weight around is needed. I happen to think it is, too. But I also think the timing is critical, and the timing should NOT be before this particular deadline.

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You would be shocked if you knew what I knew about LA's 'handling' of SWG.

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Perhaps. But I desire proof, not hearsay and rumour, before I'm willing to be shocked. Not that I will be. I'm not entirely putting LA on a pedestal, I remember plenty of times they've screwed me as a fan and gamer. However, it doesn't jive with the BULK of what I've seen of them, and it also has not been substaniated in any meaningful way where I've seen it.