Smuggler Archive
Thread: Kav's Smuggler Vision 2.5
I am going to list this all by tree, have to break it into a few post:
For underworld a full revamp is needed.
I would love to see the return of the Hutt faction and if it is even remotely possible could we get some word on it from the devs? If it is possible for something of that scope to enter our revamp I will develop a separate documents on it. The Hutt faction would be our “underworld” tie in and it would change my underworld proposal immensely.
We are missing our "social fringe" status. We are not supposed to be generals or honest businessmen. We are Smugglers.
This xp should be earned by doing missions for the Underworld, via Smuggling missions.
My idea for smuggling missions is detailed below.
- Novice: +15 Sneak, The ability to obtain smuggler missions contacts, either new
NPC’s, random NPC’s, or Spy Net Ops. - UW1: +15 Sneak, 100% Lang comp. (sneak is mask scent for NPC’s like Cor-sec)
- UW2: +15 Sneak, /recruit thug, (see below), /fast talk (see smuggling),
- UW3: +15 Sneak, Opportunist (Ability to trade with all people no matter of faction status. But possible “Cop spawn” like a spice/slice trade, see illegal below)
- UW4: +15 Sneak, /recruit henchman
- Master: +20 Sneak, /recruit Sidekick
The main aspect is how this all plays with the Smuggler Missions.
Let us Smuggle!
Illegal
The new contraband system is a start, but still a bit thin. No one currently has any worries about being caught, save a few covert reb afk dancers. Technical limitations block more wide spread scanning, but I believe “triggered scans” are possible.
The “cop-spawn” would be Cor-Sec, Fed-Dub, or whatever the appropriate security forces for the world. Planets like Endor, Dathomir and Lok are smugglers havens, no cops, with the exception of rare Imperial patrols or other crime lords like Nym.
If the person trading is Declared in any fashion then the “cop-spawn” will be GCW in nature. ST’s Reb-spec-ops, whatever.
This lets us build on the current contraband, adding more risk without just taking from every other profession in the game.
Fast Talk
Usable only in Smuggler Mission encounters or “contraband scans”
If it fails, combat continues as normal, and you lose only the credits in the bribe. Should require a bit of HAM to use, similar to Feign death. The cash loss should not exceed 33% of what the mission is worth. That way it is still profitable, you’re just paying off the cops…
Smugglers get the ability to do trading across faction bounds regardless of covert, overt, or TEF. With the possibility of “cop spawn” just as if trading contraband. If the smuggler is declared at the time, the cop spawn will be GCW in nature, StormTroopers, Reb SpecOps, etc.
As a Smugglers Underworld contacts grow, so does his organization.
Underworld2: Recruit Thug-Allows the /taming of meatlumps-swooper-desertdeamon-Sleemo basically all "ganger" types up to CL8
Underworld4: Recruit Henchman-Allows the taming of up to CL10 "ganger" NPC's
Master Smuggler: Recruit Sidekick-Allows taming of up to CL15 "ganger" NPC's
You can only have one "ganger" tamed at anytime.
Not sellable/transferable to anyone else, even other smugglers.
These would not be “pets” per se. One suggestion that may help remove that line of thought would be to only have the Henchman “hired” for a limited time. Not be a perpetual pet in our data pad. Though they would count against that total.
the /recruit thug skill could work as follows:
you get within a few meters of a non-hostile ganger.
issue command /bribe [insert credits].
the amount of credits is added to the faction you have with the gang.
if the total is [some number SOE likes] you hire/bribe the ganger.
While this would be a pain to some, it would be more fitting to have cops auto aggro ya instead of Swoops and Monumenters.
Smuggling Missions
Building on the current “sub-game” system that bounty hunters use. Smuggling should be our “sub-game”
These Missions Should not be icing on the cake but integral to the advancement of a smuggler. For this reason Underworld would be switched to xp generated by smuggling missions. (smuggling xp)
This idea of Smuggling missions does that 3 ways:
- Additional slicing opportunities, especially for novices.
- The gain of uncraftable Spice (glitterstim) for sale or use.
- The gain of “Smuggler Faction” to aid in evading scans and cops.
They should be obtainable only via the Spynet(or other) NPC’s and/or Via slicing the terminals to access a black-market sub system. Slicing a terminal would add a new “tab” to the types of missions. (Remove the increased payout that they do now, this replaces it)
These Missions should involve the manufacture and/or transport of illegal materials from City-City at the lowest level, and Planet-Planet at the highest. They should be risky, involve investment on the part of the smuggler, and be FUN.
- Novice Smuggler=1
- First row filled=2
- 2ndrow filled=3, etc…
- Master Smuggler=6.
The value of mission should be measured against the time and risk of a standard destroy mission, then bumped up dependent on the additional risk involved. (see Mission Failure)
Obtained only via NPC’s. Your getting started in the crime world on the street, learning the ropes as it were.
Make X amount of a Novice grade spice. Meet an NPC at location Y (anywhere from within town to 2k out, city on same planet, not the originating city).
A chance of being “detected”:
- Level of mission: more money=more attention
Size of town: Small towns safer than large ones. - Transport if used: Shuttles are safer than Spaceports.
- And of course your real faction rating with a police group is gonna make it hard to move round town anyway.
Go to point X and open a container for someone. 300-500c pay No higher than 500c, therefore you use a clamp you break even, you risk it, you might make some cash. Low pay but god knows the novice’s would love a new supply of containers.
Chance of being “busted” on the job site only. Lower risk lower pay.
This and all subsequent missions are gained via Slicing a terminal. You have earned your way into the trusted circle of crime.
Type B: Slicing job. Go to point X meet with person needing container opened, computer hacked, security override of some type. A successful slice earns the reward. Payout and difficulty in line with normal destroy mission, NOTE some items will not be “clampable” or may require FAN’s due to some odd security or obsolete tech. 800-1200c pay.
Type A: Bumping to tier two spices for product, Nearby moon for Destination now. (ie- Cornet mission sending you to Deric Talus) Payout should be a bit higher than comparable missions now due to a) travel cost b) forced public transportation now so higher chance of “Bust”
Now we are getting to some meat. Mixing A/B missions. Spice and Slice in same mission. With success or failure depending on both abilities. You might make the slice and fail to deliver the Spice due to being caught, therefore you fail the whole mission. This increases the risk level of completion, which therefore increases payout over that of two individual missions.
As Level4 plus multiple spice requirements, (ie-10 units spiceA and 15 units spiceB) With deliveries to multiple stops, now to other major planets. Say from Cornet to Kor Vella, then to Keren Naboo for 2nd spice. But all one mission as far as failure and payout and this increases the risk level of completion. Which therefore increases payout over that of two individual missions.
A hodge podge of it all, multiple spaceports in large cities, long runs, high risk of failure, but high pay as well.
New twist: Some Master Smuggler missions should be the transport of Glitterstim. (see Master Spices) This is the infamous cargo Solo dumped of Jabba’s. These missions, if successful, would grant the smuggler payment in Glitterstim, for breaking up and selling, or personal use.
ALL the above will need adjustment when the Space expansion is finnaly upon us. But this all works within the current system of the game.
Mission failure should be STIFF, for one reason, to keep a Smuggler BH team from working it for the BH’s benefit. And for two, if it ain’t stiff, we ain’t gonna get paid more money.
- Loss of Smuggler Faction.
- Loss of the mission owners faction. (Hutt, Swoop, Borvo, whatever)
- You can’t get another for X min.
- Your next mission will be a tier down form your norm, ie- a Master would have to run a level5 to clear his name.
- If failure due to being incapped by the Police, no smuggler missions for rest of day. And a fairly large amount of wounds or Battle fat. to force some downtime on you. You should be in jail but that would be near impossible to make fit in game.
In game now if your declared you get different missions from faction terms than if your neutral, we could use this switch on smuggler missions as well.
The “cops” in this case will be StormTroopers or Rebs.
- BH kills the Smuggler.
- BH dies prior to killing Smuggler.
- Smuggler slices BH term and pays the amount of the Bounty. The BH would get half or some such.
The cops should not show every time, especially at low level but a master can bet on seeing at least one combat encounter. Whether or not he fights talks or runs is a strategic decision.
Well you get the idea, a bit more refining needed but this is the gist of what I would love to see.
(cont.)
Dirty Fighting
In all this is a wonderful tree, it only lacks in few places for me: the master box, Feign Death's current bugged state, and our unarmed skills.
Unarmed:
We have many unarmed mods as a Smuggler right now from the brawler unarmed:
- Unarmed Speed: +25
- Unarmed Accuracy: +50
- Unarmed Toughness: +20
- Unarmed Damage: +70
- Melee Defense: +2
- Center of being efficacy: +45
- Center of Being duration: +13
As well as several Brawler attacks/skills:
- Unarmed Blind 1
- Unarmed Hit 1
- Unarmed Lunge 1
- Unarmed Spin Attack 1
- Unarmed Stun 1
- Warcry 1
- Taunt
- Berserk 1
- Intimidate
- Center of Being
Currently as soon as you equip a Pistol, all this goes away (except for warcry & intimidate)
To make Dirty Fighting Dirty, we should keep all these mods and attacks when we have a pistol equipped. Simple, effective. and we would get to use all the abilities that are REQUIRED to make smuggler. The Pistol in your hand would have nothing to do with how these hit or dmg, we would just always be flagged “unarmed” for these skills, and only these skills, no TKA ability.
Feign Death:
Currently the calculation for FD is defaulting to success in most cases for us smugglers, but since it fools no one anymore it's value is severely decreased.
Explanation:
Currently if you feign in PvE, the mobs will walk away, yet Instantly reaggro you when you /stand. This does nothing for the smuggler but waste his time, the only time it is useful is to avoid incapp in a group, but if your fighting with a group chances are you’ll never need it anyway.
In PvP, we lay on the ground, un killable, yet sustain wounds as we can still be targeted and shot.
How to Correct FD: Smugglers gain skill mods for FD as we go up the DF tree:
- Novice smuggler: 0 (does not yet have FD)
- DF1: +45
- DF2: +5
- DF3: +10
- DF4: +10
- Master: nada (but I would like to see at least a +15FD here)
The skill simply needs to be properly applied in combat to increase the chance of failure. That’s right I am saying we should be able to fail Feign Death. BUT in conjunction with this change the following should be added:
Let our chance of successfully feigning be our skill mod as a percent, skewed for any major difference in our opponents’ level. Such as a Smuggler with DF3 should have a 60% chance to successfully FDvs. a peer, but a reduced chance vs. something like a Krayt dragon of course.
We should be rendered as a corpse if successful, and in PvE there should be a chance for the mob to wander off and leave me alone. Yes we should not be able to FD, bleed, FD, a Krayt to death. But I should be able to FD and get out of a bad situation, otherwise why have the skill? Simply let a "great success"+ allow me to move on, and a "marginal success" or below would still get me camped.
In PvP a FD smuggler should appear as a corpse, the “killer” could even get his faction points for killing the smuggler, but I should be able to stand when the coast is clear and shoot em in the back . It is Dirty Fighting after all.
This is balanced by the fact that with proper codeing I would now have a chance to fail to FD, that failure in what is obviously a bad situation, combined with the HAM cost of a FD, will likely spell out my death. By no means do I want an on/off switch for combat. Just a viable skill.
Master Smuggler: +15 Pistol and Unarmed speed & accuracy, +15FD.
While I dislike the idea of adding combat Mods to smuggler in general, this is an easy answer to tie in the Master box with Dirty Fighting.
Slicing
Another wonderful tree .
The Largest complaint by far, is that we have experimentation available on our tools, and upgrade kits. This experimentation has been tested heavily and no effect can be determined. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us know what bearing it has in general, or remove it. The Jedi profession is more documented than we are…While mystery is lovely, room for disinformation griefing should be removed.
IF experimentation has anything to do with our tools then at the very least list the tool’s applicable stat in it’s examine window. Right now the only way I know a UK is experimented to any quality what the smith chooses to name it, in other news some people lie.
We _need_ some mention in the Master box about the increased slicing ability, for our customers sake. Disinformation has lead to trouble here.
For the record I am against “pick-o-slice.” Slicing is random, that’s the price for no failure. It is part of the gambler nature of Smugglers in general. To grant any form of pick-o-slice will only devalue any portion of the tree below that ability. Nor do i see any potential benifit from experrimentation that would be worth the effort it would take both from us in game, or from the devs in coding.
Instead I would like to see new abilities added to slicing to flesh the line out.
Slicing1 Terminals:
Add Ability: Slice Ticket.
Tickets are electronic passkeys. A Smuggler can sometimes hotwire these tickets to display other destinations or status. Useful when public transport is needed, but records are not. (Decreases chance of Detection on smuggler missions in arriving port)
When you slice a ticket you can attempt to change it's destination, or make it round trip. The price difference in the ticket adjust your chances of success.
Needed tools: Laser Knife.
Process:
- Blue wire-
Opens change destination window, displaying all destinations available from your location. Choose one and hit ok. Base 50-50 chance modified by price differential and slicing ability, (some form of mod for each block of slicing) If successful, it would lessen the chance of “bust” during a smuggling mission. Cor-sec traces your trail to Talus, too bad you modded the ticket to Naboo..
- more drastic change=lower chances
- higher slicing skill=better chances.
- Failure = destroys the ticket.
- Red wire- 50% chance of making ticket Roundtrip.
- Failure = destroys the ticket.
Notice there is no way to use a clamp or FAN in these abilities.
- Experience: 250 slicing xp if successful.
- Can only be attempted once every shuttle cycle. (10 min)
This is not something I see us doing for others. This is something I see us doing to help in our smuggling missions.
Slicing1 Terminals: Change ability,
Currently we slice a mission term and get the same vanilla missions with a bump in pay, remove this completely and replace with smuggler missions.
You slice a terminal and a new tab appears on the screen for Smuggler Missions.
Slicing 4: Smuggling compartments.
Ability to mod personal storage items for “secret compartments” allows for all Smuggler storage items to have a +10% of capacity smuggling compartment, this compartment helps in smuggler mission detection, (+10 Sneak) is in addition to the base capacity, but cannot contain insured items. Not transferable to others, you can give em the pack, but the compartment only opens for us.
Spice
Lots of folks (including me) feel the “crafting” nature of spice was off the mark. BUT it has become a valuable commodity in the game, and lets us have a “heal/buff” aspect to our jack-of-all-trades idea.
It would create to large a vacuum in the current game to change them much.
The current build of them being instant makes them worthwhile.
Experimentation is a hot issue, I was against it. BUT to ignore the value of an entire tree of our profession is wrong. It should have all the depth and interest as any other tree, it does not. I am not seeking massive amounts of experimentation and named materials like a dedicated 4-tree crafter, but we should have some skill come into play. Our smuggling missions should be taking up our time, not our factories.
I have tried to come up with a new and improved idea for spice, I see the following as the problems to be overcome:
- Master Box tie in needed
- Each tier should not supersede previous tier.
- Experimentation should be effective, but not overpowering.
- We should have an affinity for our product.
Immersion addition:
While anyone is under the effects of spice, the gamma of their session should be set 5-10% brighter than normal. (the screen should get brighter for you non-techs )
This would be a quick and easy opening to add, but more robust graphical effects are really desired, color shifts, wavy screens, varied focus, could all be FUN.
New Smuggler skill- Spice Affinity
As a Smuggler uses his own product, and experiences the side affects of cooking it, he build up immunities to some of the negative effects as their bodies no longer reject the spice but crave it.
- Spice 1: -5% downer duration and penalty
- Spice 2: -15% downer duration and penalty
- Spice3: -25% downer duration and penalty
- Spice4: -35% downer duration and penalty
- Master Smuggler: -50% downer duration and penalty
This helps bring Spice in as a Smuggler ability as well as a product.
Spice Tree
For the existing Spice tree, I support Caylin’s Plan of adding resist to Spice tiers1-4. This gives us something to experiment on besides the statmods, which are fairly high now in most cases. These mods will also add value to all lower tier spice as some folks may want to pursue the mod more so than the buff.
The resist are all I would want to see experimented on, and should be dependent only on overall quality of the materials. This gives us some experimentation, but keeps from putting us in the same boat as folks who spend their whole profession crafting.
Plan B: Another option was recently suggested by KaiRan: Let spice buffs be based on a percentage of your current HAM rather than a set value. This would mean no matter what food, buff, skill, or anything you have going, Spice will always be beneficial on top of it. This would remove all aspect of competition from spice vs. other buffs. Yes the percentage would have to be balanced carefully to keep a “uber” combo from coming on. But this is a simple answer that both improves spice in general, and puts “illegal drugs” in a class of their own outside of normal buffs. Considering they are contraband and have a downer this helps balance the spice vs. other legal forms of “buff”.
For Masters something more than a copy of the same old spice with new stats is needed. A new Spice assuredly, but not in the same old mold.
Master Spice: Glitterstim
Glitterstim is an awesome part of the Star Wars spice background. However it is already deeply defined in it’s rarity and difficulty in harvesting. With only Kessel as a source, and no flights to Kessel, there is no way we could “make” it. Perhaps the Space Expansion will bring Kessel to us, but I have a substitute method in the meantime.
Glitterstim should only be obtainable via Master Smuggler Missions. In quantities of no more than 10-25 units at a time. What we obtain is a sealed bulk container. We must open it, and break-up the glitterstim to lesser containers for sale. This involves slicing the container open, then using the Glitterstim we receive to craft it into smaller does, this is the point we do a crafting window on it and experiment. Maybe have another material needed like a metal for container or something. This keeps it from just being a “gimmi” item. Just think of it as harvesting with a kick
However for it to be so rare means it must be worth the effort.
Glitterstim is supposed to let it’s users see into the future and read minds to an extent. To make it any form of HAM mod would do it injustice. The only way I can think to represent this in game, is combat speed.
Glitterstim:
- +200 all stats (or a small percentage if that system gains momentum)
- +10 to +50 Speed Mod to all combat styles.
- Duration 700sec
- Downer: -75 speed mod to all combat styles.
Plus while a +50 speed mod is great for allot of people, Master Elite Combat classes don't _need_ more speed, so this is a cool nifty groovy ability, but not just an "uber give the smuggler money" add-on.
Welp’ that’s it. I really feel this would be a lot of Fun to play, and that is the goal is it not?
Message Edited by Kav on 02-25-2004 10:03 AM
Kav wrote:
For the record I am against “pick-o-slice.” Slicing is random, that’s the price for no failure. It is part of the gambler nature of Smugglers in general. To grant any form of pick-o-slice will only devalue any portion of the tree below that ability. Nor do i see any potential benifit from experrimentation that would be worth the effort it would take both from us in game, or from the devs in coding.
Great post & great ideas Kav, only thing I'd like to contribute is a possible compromise on the Pick-a-Slice debate.
As it currently stands, No smuggler has a use for a FAN, they may not be able to make Clamps until Slicing IV, but you can guarantee they will buy one over making/using a FAN *everytime* (Cue: The exception to post and correct me
)Heres my idea. Call it Version 0.1 if you like:
Move FAN crafting to Master, and make FAN's the tool by which a customer can risk a picked slice, this will give customers the following slicing options:
1. a "Clamped" Slice, 100% Success guaranteed, equal chance of speed/damage effect/encumb slices but no choice.
2. a "FAN'ed" Slice, 75% Chance of success, choice of Slice effect.
This would keep, or even increase, the risk/reward factor in slicing goods. Pick-a-slice is available, but the risks are there, choose a Clamp and know you'll have a sliced item in your hands at the cost of choosing, or choose a FAN'd slice and choose a slice at the cost of the risk of having an unsliced, unslicable item.
My 0.02Cr worth
This sounds interesting. I like the idea.
Vespya wrote:
Great post & great ideas Kav, only thing I'd like to contribute is a possible compromise on the Pick-a-Slice debate.
As it currently stands, No smuggler has a use for a FAN, they may not be able to make Clamps until Slicing IV, but you can guarantee they will buy one over making/using a FAN *everytime* (Cue: The exception to post and correct me
Heres my idea. Call it Version 0.1 if you like:
Move FAN crafting to Master, and make FAN's the tool by which a customer can risk a picked slice, this will give customers the following slicing options:
1. a "Clamped" Slice, 100% Success guaranteed, equal chance of speed/damage effect/encumb slices but no choice.
2. a "FAN'ed" Slice, 75% Chance of success, choice of Slice effect.
This would keep, or even increase, the risk/reward factor in slicing goods. Pick-a-slice is available, but the risks are there, choose a Clamp and know you'll have a sliced item in your hands at the cost of choosing, or choose a FAN'd slice and choose a slice at the cost of the risk of having an unsliced, unslicable item.
My 0.02Cr worth
Vespya wrote:
...
Move FAN crafting to Master, and make FAN's the tool by which a customer can risk a picked slice, this will give customers the following slicing options:
1. a "Clamped" Slice, 100% Success guaranteed, equal chance of speed/damage effect/encumb slices but no choice.
2. a "FAN'ed" Slice, 75% Chance of success, choice of Slice effect.
This would keep, or even increase, the risk/reward factor in slicing goods. Pick-a-slice is available, but the risks are there, choose a Clamp and know you'll have a sliced item in your hands at the cost of choosing, or choose a FAN'd slice and choose a slice at the cost of the risk of having an unsliced, unslicable item.
This idea is brings up the risk at least which has merit. I thought about this in the past. I just do not see a bottom line change that would be worth while to it.
Lets assume for a moment a fella comes up with a handfull of Power Hammers, he is looking for a 30%+ speed slice.
- Currently: you have a 50% chance (Presumed) or speed. then about a 25% chance after that of 30%+ for a net chance of : 12.5% if i did that right.
- With the FAN idea: 75% chance of getting that speed, then 25% chance of 30%+ for a total of: 18.75%
So the guy is taking a 25% chance of broken slice risk to gain ~5% chance of getting what he wants. Just not much bang-for-buck, and he will be just as pissed as ever if he gets a sub 30% or a failed slice.
So while i wouldn't oppose a system like this, it just doen't make a big enough change to me to be worth the pain.
Also i am not ofthe school of thought that more accurate slices are our friend. We sell the service, if you didn't like the first one your going to buy a 2nd. That is more money for the smuggler. If a system is developed that increases the slice quality i do not see prices going up in the long term, folks undercut now, they will continue to undercut.
And by the way I used alot of FANs while skilling up hehehe thanks for the feedback and like i said it's not like i would oppose the idea.
Smug-Druggler wrote:
First of all, Kav, some well earned praise to get out of the way...
Smug-Druggler wrote:
The one point that sticks out in my extreme "What About That?" file, is the Gamma adjustment to the character being "zooted" on Spice. I love that idea!But there are still some players whosuffer with higher Gamma already due to their own system bugs, video card bugs etc., and a higher Gamma might make a session unplayable entirely.
Hmm didn't know some folks had trouble with this. Isn't there a gamma adjustment in the ctrl-o menu? But ya i would not want it to hurt your ability to play, just have a heightened sense of being on the drug, kinda bring it more to a feel than just a timer. the gamma was an idea for a quick fix but there is alot of others that would be cool too.
Ever play an Old FPS called Rise of the Triad? It had a mushroom that when you ate it hte controls all went backwards and the screen turned diffrent ways hehehee
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Also i am not ofthe school of thought that more accurate slices are our friend. We sell the service, if you didn't like the first one your going to buy a 2nd. That is more money for the smuggler.
Well, yes it brings us more money, but when you talk composite, I won't do the math but the chance of you wearing that suit you bought are abismally low. Some composite suits MUST be sliced and well sliced to be worn. Else you enter the realm of buffing to wear armor, with the usual annoyances. (Mainly, can't take off the armor while resting unless you can/want to buff again.
A good slice shouldn't be mandatory to get to use items you purchased and are qualified to use. I've known unlucky guys who brought me more than 10 of the same piece because they got unsatisfying slices. (ie: uh oh, still can't wear it." Sounds real frustrating that this is a tool used to make armorsmiths and slicers richer. So I'm not very fond of that scholl of thought. Money for the smuggler at the expense of another player's fun isn't good gameplay. Think like you order a car, and when it's delivered the gear handle is out of reach because the car is too large. So good it can go to 200mph if you can't go into second gear...that's the same for a guy that buys a full set and gets to use half of it.
i agree sluggy there should not be a requierment to have a good slice, though i see that as a failing of the armor not the slicer. I am no condoneing "gougeing" but I am saying that Smugglers will not see an increase in cash from "more better" slicing. Folks pay what they think it is worth.