Smuggler Archive
Thread: The Great Disconnect: FUNCTIONALITY vs. content
Page 1 of 1
LM
Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:37 pm
#1
I think that the problem we are having with LA/SOE is the result of a great disconnection.What we have wanted, what we have asked for, and what Green Marine understood was this: we want to be able to SMUGGLE -- which is a VERB. A verb implies FUNCTIONALITY.
And in order to really SMUGGLE (not just pick up and deliver stuff) one must have a real contraband system, with consequences to ALL players.
Anything less than that is role-play and make-believe.
It's like giving missions to a Weaponsmith (via an NPC or a terminal) that have pre-madeweapons as rewardsand saying "Here ya go! You are a Weaponsmith."
For that matter, imagine any crafting profession that DID NOT CRAFT --that simply got its wares pre-made via missions.
Or think about Pilots who could own cool ships but COULDN'T ACTUALLY FLY them -- the "launch" option wouldn't be available, just the "travel" option.
Now, it could be that the coding for a real contraband system might be daunting. Or perhaps SOE/LA is afraid of those players who seem to want everything to be easy and have no consequences -- seems they have chosen that path a lot lately and stated "Players didn't think such-and-such was fun." In that case, SOE/LA: Please be honest and direct and tell us WHY you don't, won't or can't give us a REAL contraband system.
(Not to mention, why is there no "smuggling" in space planned, even in this weak implementation that is currently "In Concept?")
Bottom line (to paraphrase an old campaign slogan): "It's the FUNCTIONALITY, stupid!"
Avethian
Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:59 pm
#2
This is a bumper sticker.
There are some good points for discussion here, and I think it's important that people understand the distinction between a true contraband system with reprecutions for all playersand simple delivery missions in a smuggler coating.
/ponder
/clap
Message Edited by Avethian on 10-15-2005 09:00 PM
VegitoX
Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:42 pm
#3
/bump
it's late, and i'd like to toss in my thoughts after a full night's rest.
Zeon_Zaku
Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:55 pm
#4
If only the Devs would take a look at this... 
Some nice points brought up, indeed.
Avethian
Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:00 pm
#5
LM wrote:
I get frustrated hearing people say that we are asking for content. We are actually asking for the FUNCTION of smuggling... All other professions FUNCTION as their namesakes suggest. We have yet to do so.
I am of this mindset as well. To me, what is important is that we, as smugglers,are able to move itemsacross the galaxy which every other profession cannot without major repercussions. Everything else is secondary. The basic system needs to be implemented, and then if we absolutely have to wait for the other things we want, it's ok with me. As long as the basic concept behind smuggling is well done and is, as LM puts it, functional.
Wow, I should retype this when I'm not about to fall asleep.
Message Edited by Avethian on 10-16-2005 11:01 PM
ValiantHalibut
Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:35 pm
#6
That's exactly the issue. In order to implement smuggling, they'd need to require an active transport system for materials. This system would need to have a prevalent legitimate side to it in order for smuggling to exist - if the only way to transport goods is by smuggling then it ceases to be smuggling. Any system like this would drastically alter the way people play the game and people, as a rule, don't like change even if it will eventually be for the best.
From SOE's perspective I do understand what's happening. I don't like it and I think it's the result of a sloppy initial design, but I understand where they are now. In order to implement the kind of system that we want it would A) require a lot of coding and therefore, a lot of money for coders, B) it would inevitably piss off a good number of players and potentially cause them to quit and C) the players it would most clearly benefit (smugglers) are a minority that cannot be counted on to bring in the numbers that would make up for the loss at step B and cover the costs of step A.
From SOE's perspective I do understand what's happening. I don't like it and I think it's the result of a sloppy initial design, but I understand where they are now. In order to implement the kind of system that we want it would A) require a lot of coding and therefore, a lot of money for coders, B) it would inevitably piss off a good number of players and potentially cause them to quit and C) the players it would most clearly benefit (smugglers) are a minority that cannot be counted on to bring in the numbers that would make up for the loss at step B and cover the costs of step A.
LM
Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:13 am
#7
Hey, thanks, Avethian.
Seems I have been a thread-killer lately -- I figured that's what happened again here.
Maybe I am too long-winded heh
I get frustrated hearing people say that we are asking for content. We are actually asking for the FUNCTION of smuggling... All other professions FUNCTION as their namesakes suggest. We have yet to do so.
Avethian
Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:34 am
#8
ValiantHalibut wrote:
From SOE's perspective I do understand what's happening. I don't like it and I think it's the result of a sloppy initial design, but I understand where they are now. In order to implement the kind of system that we want it would A) require a lot of coding and therefore, a lot of money for coders, B) it would inevitably piss off a good number of players and potentially cause them to quit and C) the players it would most clearly benefit (smugglers) are a minority that cannot be counted on to bring in the numbers that would make up for the loss at step B and cover the costs of step A.
Warning, not an insult, just a response.
You are simplifying matters a bit here. What we are talking about does not necessarily require a great deal of change and/or coding. To imagine the system in its rawest form, perhaps it is an overwhelming project, but with a bit of thought it could be a simple system.
Firstly, the items that we can smuggle, which others cannot, do not have to be particularly common items. I'm not saying that a normal player can't carry spice from one planet to the other, or sliced weapons. I agree, that would be too drastic. But if they were to implement a few new items that were 'highly illegal' that players don't come across often, unless they are smugglers, that could work.
Perhaps the highly illegal items could just be useful to regular players in a few quests, in which they would need our help to move it from one planet to the next. And otherwise, they don't really need the 'X-contraband', unless they want to go through the hastle of trying to sell it because of its high worth to people involved in the underworld. And so, aside from the quests, you could have an NPC only smugglers can talk to who, like the Chassis dealer, who will take 'X-contraband' off your hands at a good price. I don't particularly think this isthe end-allfantastic idea, but its just an example.
And in terms of coding the 'X-contraband' (excluding the missions, here), I can't imagine it to be too dificult. Perhaps, if you aren't a novice smuggler, all travel is prohibited while 'X-contraband' is in your inventory. That is obviously too simple to appease most of us, but it's a start, and it's easy, and it's better, IMO, than what we are probably going to get.
These are some jumbled thoughts, and sloppily written to boot. I have a more detailed version in my head, but I have not the energy to type it all out right now. Perhaps I will soon, if anyone finds this version interesting.
Makris
Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:53 am
#9
Functionality alone will not suffice. If we ask for simply functionality, they'd deliver something like Player A gives Player B some Muon Gold. You receive a system message saying "Congratulations! You are now smuggling!"
We do need some content utilizing NPCs and player ships to make this ENJOYABLE.
Edit: So, my conclusion is, we need functionality AND content.
Message Edited by Makris on 10-17-2005 10:55 AM
Camelz
Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:24 am
#10
You guys are way off base here.
You need to first ask yourselves a few questions like:
Is smuggling going to improve Light Sabre speed?
Is smuggling going to make Jedi easier for BH to kill?
Is smuggling going to drop premium pearls?
Is smuggling going to reveal cloaked Jedi?
Is smuggling going to break stasis?
Is smuggling going to increase the damage of Force Powers attacks?
If the answer to any one of the above questions is "No" then smuggling is obviously a game breaking exploit and does not warrant any development time whatsoever (unless it can be packaged as an expansion and used to remove another $30 from players pockets).
Tante
Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:27 am
#11
Camelz wrote:(unless it can be packaged as an expansion and used to remove another $30 from players pockets).
Actually I am starting to wonder if we will have to pay 30$ for every patch from now on...
WildKarrd
Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:29 am
#12
I think they should cut the monthly price, less content, less players, less cost. only makes sense.
ValiantHalibut
Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:22 pm
#13
Avethian wrote:
ValiantHalibut wrote:
From SOE's perspective I do understand what's happening. I don't like it and I think it's the result of a sloppy initial design, but I understand where they are now. In order to implement the kind of system that we want it would A) require a lot of coding and therefore, a lot of money for coders, B) it would inevitably piss off a good number of players and potentially cause them to quit and C) the players it would most clearly benefit (smugglers) are a minority that cannot be counted on to bring in the numbers that would make up for the loss at step B and cover the costs of step A.
Warning, not an insult, just a response.You are simplifying matters a bit here. What we are talking about does not necessarily require a great deal of change and/or coding. To imagine the system in its rawest form, perhaps it is an overwhelming project, but with a bit of thought it could be a simple system.Firstly, the items that we can smuggle, which others cannot, do not have to be particularly common items. I'm not saying that a normal player can't carry spice from one planet to the other, or sliced weapons. I agree, that would be too drastic. But if they were to implement a few new items that were 'highly illegal' that players don't come across often, unless they are smugglers, that could work.Perhaps the highly illegal items could just be useful to regular players in a few quests, in which they would need our help to move it from one planet to the next. And otherwise, they don't really need the 'X-contraband', unless they want to go through the hastle of trying to sell it because of its high worth to people involved in the underworld. And so, aside from the quests, you could have an NPC only smugglers can talk to who, like the Chassis dealer, who will take 'X-contraband' off your hands at a good price. I don't particularly think this is the end-all fantastic idea, but its just an example.And in terms of coding the 'X-contraband' (excluding the missions, here), I can't imagine it to be too dificult. Perhaps, if you aren't a novice smuggler, all travel is prohibited while 'X-contraband' is in your inventory. That is obviously too simple to appease most of us, but it's a start, and it's easy, and it's better, IMO, than what we are probably going to get.These are some jumbled thoughts, and sloppily written to boot. I have a more detailed version in my head, but I have not the energy to type it all out right now. Perhaps I will soon, if anyone finds this version interesting.
I understand what you're saying - there are simpler ways to implement "smuggling" in the game - but they'll end up being layers placed atop a system that doesn't allow for proper smuggling. The system itself isn't geared towards what we're looking for because the design philosophy behind it views grinding as a fundamental gameplay mechanic.
Here, in a nutshell, is what I would love to see in a game - no longer do I hold out hope for this game, however:
1) Resources are static or last for much longer intervals.
2) Resources cannot be carried in inventory.
3) Routes must be established between resources and refinement.
4) Establishment (Rebs/Alliance/Government/Guild that controls the territory/whatever) taxes and patrols transport routes.
5) Routes are attackable.
With that type of system implemented in a game numerous gameplay dynamics suddenly appear. From simple tranportation to raiding to smuggling to patroling and protecing - there would be a lot for players to do. Anyway, one can dream.
Page 1 of 1