Smuggler Archive

Thread: A BASIC PROPOSAL: The Contraband-X System of Smuggling

Avethian
Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:03 pm
#1



Possible Additions:(Skip this section if you’re in a hurry)

1) Other functions for Underworld Contacts. Buying Underworld faction standing for more selling room and for newer smugglers. Lowering Visibility on player bounties, I.E. Jedi, etc.


2) High level Underworld Contacts, at Nym’s, Jabba’s, and Valarian’s hideouts. You must have a faction standing of so and so to speak with these contacts.They give you missions with more expensive version of ‘X-Contraband’. You can complete the mission for a higher reward or try to sell the Goods. But, if you try to sell it to the regular Underworld Contacts they would reply with something like, “Are you crazy, I’d get killed for buying that kind of stuff from you. You would have to sell it to the other High level contacts. Also leaves room for separate Underworld factions. Could be implemented at a later date.


3) There is also room for a Bounty Hunter Contact here, which would act as the ‘terminal’ for hunting smugglers based on failed missions and Underworld standing. But as the current smuggler build could not stand up against the Alpha Hunters, this would also be better left for a later date.)

Message Edited by Avethian on 10-17-2005 01:12 PM



------------------------------------------------------
Avethian Jen-Ti
Master Smuggler - Master Pistoleer - Dice Gambler - Scoundrel
Creator of Bothan Bets, Corellian Seven, Chance It, and Outer Rim Poker
"I cannot teach him, the boy has no pants."
Starsider Since Birth
necromorteus
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:09 pm
#2

I like this idea a lot. One other thing I think would be great, as I have a toon that is a shipwright, could be a craftable cargo hold, would not be to big, maby could only hold a couple units of contraband-x, since hidden holds should be small. The use of these holds would be that they would increase the %chance of geting the cargo that is placed in it through the contraband serches, depending on the quality. Would give somthing new to the shipwrights, and be a bit more starwarsy imo.



Ytiek Okeutas, Jedi Padawan
ValiantHalibut
Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:19 pm
#3

It is a reasonable idea to have implemented in the game, but I see a few problems with it.

First of all, it requires JTL and space interaction which is something I love, but will limit it to players that have JTL and that enjoy space flight. I don't have a problem with the latter part of that as I think that any smuggler worth his salt would also be a pilot, but the former is an issue. You can't gate a base profession's content based around whether or not someone bought the expansion. ('Course, if I had my way they'd give us that bought JTL pre-RotW this new expansion for free and just let everyone have JTL)

Second, as a Master Pilot there's very little I worry about in space anymore. If someone comes up on me in the middle of my mission and says, "Let me check your cargo!" I'll just blast them and continue on my merry way.

Third, if this contraband-X only exists for the sake of smuggler missions then we end up with, as has been said before, glorified delivery missions.



1) I don't really have a suggestion for the first point per se - you need to include interstellar travel as an aspect of any smuggler system and that means aspects of it will be gated to non-JTL players. If you include a more substantial ground part as well, then non-JTL players will still have new content.

2) For the second item, how about this: Rather then having a waypoint to travel to you need to reach a certain "safe zone" in each system in order to initiate the jump to hyperspace. It won't just be a waypoint, rather it'll be an entire section of space that you have to find and remember. You could restrict jumps to certain systems depending on which zone you're in - for example, the safe jump zone to get to Dathomir might be a very small, hard to reach spot in one or two sectors.

While in space any "enforcement" NPC's can target you and scan you. Have them act like real cops - if you don't stop they'll call ahead and have someone waiting for you. If you do stop they'll initiate a dialogue ("Do you know what you're carrying there, son?") allowing you to "fast talk." If you just start blasting, though, you can expect to face rapidly increasing waves of enemies - or just a few high-tier gunboats.

3) For the third things get more complicated. I love the idea of adding a layer onto the already existing system that will facilitate smuggling. But why not make that layer as rich as possible? I know that you're trying to keep things simple, and I respect that, but if it's too simple then it'll just be something we all do once or twice (or, in some cases, until they get the badge) and then move on.

With that in mind, I think we need it to be something that other players can use and would need us to move for them. Your ideas work for that - only smugglers can take shuttles or launch into space if they've got it in their inventory. If it's something that can actually be used, though - well, then other players will need to contract smugglers to get the goods through.



--
Wise man say, "forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Avethian
Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:34 pm
#4


Necro- I thought of adding in a new type of hidden cargo hold, but was unsure of how difficult the coding might be. But I do in fact love the idea of a cargo hold that decreases your chances of getting caught when you use the /HIDE option.


Valiant- Well done on the feedback, it is all useful stuff. Before I post any sort of response, I'd like to reiterate that this is just an outline of the basic concepts, not necessarily well-polished final draft. And now, to address a few points...


JTL- You don't have to have it to be a smuggler, just to participate in this element of the game. Furthermore, to say that we shouldn't have Space based professions would be to say we should get rid of Shipwrights and Pilots. I am simplifying a complicated issue here, but I think very few people would have a problem with JTL being the basis for Smuggling. And if a player just wants the combat side of Smuggler, they could still do it completely within the confines of the original game.


MISSIONS- As you can tell, my ideas on missionsare only a rough outline. But, in terms of whether or notMaster Pilots wouldbe scared of the 'police cruisers'...The ships could be random spawns not based on the level of space difficulty. One time it might be a couple of ties, and you will think 'no problem', and blast them out of the sky. Another time it might be 5 gunboats, and you'll think 'What Cargo?', dump it, and live with the consequences.


PLAYER DEPENDENCY- While I am a huge fan of player inter-dependence, many players are not. I am hesitant to suggest an item that is too common or useful, because to do so alienates the player base. We already know that if things are too hard on the players, and they complain, the game gets changed to catter to them. I don't like it, I think games should obviously be challenging, but not everyone feels this way about MMO's. That's why I suggest a system in which it is beneficial, but ultimately optional, as to whether or not a player opts to hire a smuggler. ((This is also similar to other proffesions in that you don't NEED to buy armor, or NEED to buy clothes, it is optional))



As I have said, rough ideas, but rather solid in my opinion. But bring it on, more feedback...?

Message Edited by Avethian on 10-17-2005 09:36 PM



------------------------------------------------------
Avethian Jen-Ti
Master Smuggler - Master Pistoleer - Dice Gambler - Scoundrel
Creator of Bothan Bets, Corellian Seven, Chance It, and Outer Rim Poker
"I cannot teach him, the boy has no pants."
Starsider Since Birth
ValiantHalibut
Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:31 pm
#5

Oh - I'm all for JTL content for smugglers. If there's not I'll be very, very angry. I'm just playing devil's advocate, really

My feelings about the NPC interactions in space are tied to my feelings about player inter-dependency. Try this on for size: Rather then having one "contraband-X" we have a group of items that are clssified as Highly Illegal - Kill On Sight Illegal by any authority figure for whatever reasons. These items could be useable by players but would be very optional. They wouldn't do anything that you needed to be competative but they would add something. I'm trying to figure out a way to do that, but it's difficult. Anyway, any time you're carrying Highly Illegal cargo as a smuggler you're facing risk from NPCs on the ground and in space. As such, I don't think random spawns are the way to go - I think that increasing NPC enforcement presence in space sectors and establishing routine patrol routes is the way to go.

See, I don't want to see the spawn be tied to a mission - I don't like the idea that you'll always come across an Imperial flight that wants to scan you. I, generally, prefer systemic solutions as opposed to discreet solutions. For example, you launch into Naboo space and you know you're taking a risk - there might be some RSF fighters right there as you load. However, if they're not you can use previous knowledge about their routines and patrol routes to avoid them and get your cargo where you want it without detection. If it was just mission based then you'd know that every time you took a mission you were going to run into a situation and it would take away some of the excitement of it.

I still also think that it would be better if the enemies you fought would build as you went. If there's, say, three TIE fighters that show up and agro you (scan turns out positive, you try to run, they don't like your smell, whatever) they would call in reinforcements. It can be assumed that whatever base launched them is keeping track, so if you waste them they'll send something worse. If you run and the TIEs can't catch you, they'll call in something that can. This'll keep going - the ideal, obviously, would be trying to outrun a crazy, "you're going to die" outnumbering force through an asteroid belt as you try to reach the hyper-out point.



--
Wise man say, "forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Halyn
Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:57 pm
#6


Patrols to stop a ship in space need to be of sufficient firepower/composition to make a pilot seriously consider his options. Even a couple of Tier 5 fighters are no big deal--if worst comes to worst, crank up EO4 on your 119 engine and boost away. No problem.


To rectify that, customs ships would need to be implemented, capable of keeping up with smuggler ships. Whether they are extraordinarily high-speed gunboats, Warlord-class cruisers, Corellian corvettes (which would be awesome), or some new ships, such a situation would *have* to be considered. Otherwise, smugglers with a well-equipped POB would never worry about a patrol. They'd just tap the booster and race away.






Halyn Lance -- Rara Avis Flight School
Common sense is highly uncommon.
...has mastered the Pilot profession.
"I'll type this slowly so even Imperials can understand..."--Michael Stackpole, RS IRC
Avethian
Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:51 am
#7


















The 'Contraband-X' System of Smuggling


(Requires JTL)


GOAL


To create a relatively simple contraband system which applies to all players and gives, at long last, smuggling content.



PREMISE


A highly illegal substance is implemented into the game, referred to henceforth as ‘Contraband-X’. For instance, ‘this substance is a common ingredient in many illegal spices and has been deemed illegal by both the Empire and the Alliance’.


All other professions, apart from smugglers, cannot travel from a star or shuttle port while ‘Contraband-X’ is in their inventory. ((They might receive a message, “You are carrying Highly Illegal Items, it would be unwise to use a public port.”)) If they decide to move it from port to port, they must obtain the services of a smuggler. However, for a non-smuggler, this item is a rare find.


If a novice smuggler (or higher) has ‘Contraband-X’ in their inventory, they will be unable to use PUBLIC transportation. Meaning they must own a ship. They will also be unable to use the TRAVEL option. ((They might receive a message, “You are carrying Highly Illegal Items, it might be best to travel under the radar.”)) They will thus be forced to use the LAUNCH option. This operation is detailed below.


Lastly, without going into the details of smuggling missions, there is an NPC called an Underworld Contact.This NPC has multiple functions similar to the Chassis Dealer. Most importantly, he will buy ‘Contraband-X’ at something like 100k per container. Only those with the appropriate Underworld faction standing can speak with Underworld Contacts. Note: There would be a limit of one contact per planet.



IMPLEMENTATION PART 1: WHAT THIS MEANS TOTHE PLAYER BASE


Most players will not see ‘Contraband-X’ on a day-to-day basis. Thus, their gameplay will not be altered in any extreme way.


But, they might run into the Illegal Goods in one of two scenarios:


1) A new quest (or two) could be written in which players are asked by NPC’s to help them move Illegal Items across the galaxy for whatever reason. Consequently, in order to complete the quest they would have to employ a smuggler to carry the goods for them. Note: the quest reward should desirable.


2) ‘Contraband-X’ might be found on high level NPC’s. Perhaps at DWB, or on the planet Mustafar. The Goods are obviously valuable to the player, because they can be sold to an Underworld Contact, with the help of a smuggler.



IMPLEMENTATION PART 2: WHAT THIS MEANS TO SMUGGLERS


Aside from helping other players complete the new smuggling quests and selling looted 'Contraband-X', smugglers would have their very own missions:


Acquiring the Missions:


Every novice smuggler can speak with an Underworld Contact to acquire a mission (No matter what their Underworld faction standing is). Mission Accepted = the contact gives you ‘Contraband-X’ and a location on another planet.


Note: If you attempt to click on the contact who gave you the mission, his only response will be, “Get going, I shouldn’t have to tell you that time is an issue here…” Concordantly, your mission will be timed, perhaps you have 30 minutes to deliver the cargo.



Performing the Missions:


You travel to a Starport and use the LAUNCH command in your ship. Once in space you will receive a Waypoint of a safe hyperspace jump point.


While traveling to this destination you may be interrupted by Imperials, Rebels, or Bandits inspecting or attacking your ship. This random spawn could be anything from a couple of ties to a couple of Vettes. As others have detailed, a system could be implemented in which you are given a menu and you have a choice to drop the cargo (fail the mission and lose 25 Underworld faction points, but not have to fight), hide the cargo (50/50 chance they attack you), or attack first.


Note: If you engage hyperdrive engines before you are at a safe point, you will autimatically jetison your cargo. When in the designated area, you will see a message on your screen, "All clear."



Completing the Missions:


Once at the Waypoint, you are able to achieve hyperspace and you can travel to the planet or your choice: here you have two options...


1) You can take the cargo to its intended recipient. Mission Success. You receive approximately 20,000 Credits and 50 Underworld faction points.


2) Or you can take the cargo to another Underworld Contact and sell it for the full 100,000 credits. You fail the mission and lose 75 Underworld faction points. But hey, you’ve got some cash under your belt.


HOWEVER, if you have less than 200 Underworld faction points, no contact will buy your ‘Contraband-X’.



CONCLUSSION


This system is certainly unpolished, but it seems to me to be feasible. It does not include everything we as smugglers want, but we can’t expect to get everything. In my opinion, what is most important is that we have a basic contraband system. We can expand to player bounties and more content from there.


What I have laid out is a basic system of smuggling which is useful to the entire player base, but, for the most part, effects only the smuggler profession on a day to day basis. On top of that, a system which should be relatively simple to write and code.



Please feel free to post your questions or concerns below...

Message Edited by Avethian on 10-18-2005 08:15 AM



------------------------------------------------------
Avethian Jen-Ti
Master Smuggler - Master Pistoleer - Dice Gambler - Scoundrel
Creator of Bothan Bets, Corellian Seven, Chance It, and Outer Rim Poker
"I cannot teach him, the boy has no pants."
Starsider Since Birth
ValiantHalibut
Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:45 am
#8



Halyn wrote:

Patrols to stop a ship in space need to be of sufficient firepower/composition to make a pilot seriously consider his options. Even a couple of Tier 5 fighters are no big deal--if worst comes to worst, crank up EO4 on your 119 engine and boost away. No problem.

To rectify that, customs ships would need to be implemented, capable of keeping up with smuggler ships. Whether they are extraordinarily high-speed gunboats, Warlord-class cruisers, Corellian corvettes (which would be awesome), or some new ships, such a situation would *have* to be considered. Otherwise, smugglers with a well-equipped POB would never worry about a patrol. They'd just tap the booster and race away.






The ideal would be that you know from previous encounters that if you boost away from this first patrol you'll be facing something that can keep up with you in the near future. Likewise, if you take out that first patrol, they'll send something that's bigger and badder after you.

Look at it like this: I've got a very fast car and I like to drive it fast. If a cop lights me up, though, I pull over even though I can outrun him. Why? Because they'll set up a speed trap down the road or get more cops after me or run my license plate or whatever. You need to get that sort of feeling - sure you're submitting to a scan from an enemy you could blast or run away from, but you're doing it so you don't have to face something even worse down the road.

Of course, your options will always be changing. What if they find the cargo? What if they want to board the ship? What if they're just in a bad mood? Can you bribe them? etc etc... That's the kind of feeling I'd love to see.

Thanks for the props, Hetnikik



--
Wise man say, "forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Avethian
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:09 am
#9

Firstly,I may not have been clear on this- in terms of keeping suspense... I meant that the spawns would be random in that there was also a possibility that nothing shows up to stop you. So, there is still suspense-if and what is going to show up? Just thought I'd clear that up. And I too was interested in having Vettes be a rare spawn, with a good size squad of ties all about. Giving me chills just imagining it. And I wouldn't mind seeing some faster custom ships added to the game as 'Police Cruisers' of a sort. Good suggestions.



And Valiant, though I agree, I think it's much more likely and feasible that we get a random spawn than some patrol system. Though a patrol system would be wonderful for all your reasons mentioned, it would be easy to navigate through unless really well implemented. And there's no way they are going to take that kind of care and time with this revamp. We have to remember that SWG is not a game about Smugglers, if it were we could expect a lot, but we arejust one of 30(?) professions. The game isn't going to change drastically for us. ((And I will mention this now instead of someone else doingit to hijack the thread; I realize that these rules don't apply to jedi. But let's face it, we aren't jedi)) However, if the patrols could be added to boost GCW in space, it could work. Though a system like that is too complicated for me to get into.




Good work guys, keep it comin...




------------------------------------------------------
Avethian Jen-Ti
Master Smuggler - Master Pistoleer - Dice Gambler - Scoundrel
Creator of Bothan Bets, Corellian Seven, Chance It, and Outer Rim Poker
"I cannot teach him, the boy has no pants."
Starsider Since Birth
BelarrnSorak
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:31 am
#10

other then being blasted to bits, there needs to be some penility for haveing the stuff, fines and stuff is ok, but i was thinking and jail break would be more fun, you are transported to the Danthmore Jail and need to escape, all contraband-X is confinscated and if your Imperial you drop 1 rank.


if there is no punishment for haveing the stuff then its all pointless. fines anbeing attacked are ok, but most people don't consider it a problem, just slows them down for a min, where being sent to prison, maybe intarragated buy an IMP office contraband confinscated and possiblya large fine, (a % of credits not a hard coded number )would make it that much more of an experiance




Name: Drawde
Profession: Bounty Hunter
Faction: Imperial


Name: Ageo
Profession: Medic
Faction: Imperial

Avethian
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:59 am
#11






BelarrnSorak wrote:

other then being blasted to bits, there needs to be some penility for haveing the stuff, fines and stuff is ok, but i was thinking and jail break would be more fun, you are transported to the Danthmore Jail and need to escape, all contraband-X is confinscated and if your Imperial you drop 1 rank.


if there is no punishment for haveing the stuff then its all pointless. fines anbeing attacked are ok, but most people don't consider it a problem, just slows them down for a min, where being sent to prison, maybe intarragated buy an IMP office contraband confinscated and possiblya large fine, (a % of credits not a hard coded number )would make it that much more of an experiance






While prison might be a tough thing to implement, droping a rank if caught by your own faction might be cool. And the percentage of cash ain't bad either. Or maybe if you get caught you can choose one or the other... 1) 'Bribe officer, lose .5% of your bank credits. 2) 'Take the punishment, lose 1 rank' Or some other combination.





------------------------------------------------------
Avethian Jen-Ti
Master Smuggler - Master Pistoleer - Dice Gambler - Scoundrel
Creator of Bothan Bets, Corellian Seven, Chance It, and Outer Rim Poker
"I cannot teach him, the boy has no pants."
Starsider Since Birth
SmugglinZane
Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:17 am
#12

I like the system, but I would also like to see something in there about current "illegal" items.


The best part about it though is it seems to have room to add other things to the contraband list as things progress, either through a GCW development or the devs finally making sliced equipment and spices actually illegal.



The one thing I will say though is that the devs have a problem making things dependent. Without a way for regular players to pay taxes or fines (that would of course have to be legitimate size) instead of finding Smugglers to move things, they just won't go for it.



"Jedi claims of being "broken" are like saying "But my TV isn't widescreen! It's broken! My TV can't show high-def pictures in 1080i, it can only do 720i! It's broken!" Meanwhile, crafters are saying "We'd really like to have a TV that's larger than 12" and gets more than 4 channels and doesn't constantly lose vertical control", and entertainers are saying "Can we get some color instead of this B&W piece of junk?" And smugglers? We're listening to radio programs of "The Shadow" and "The Abbot and Costello Comedy Hour" and hearing FDR's Fireside Chats. We don't even HAVE a damn TV, much less a broken one or a "broken" one by Jedi standards. I'd LOVE to be as "broken" as they are." - The Legendary Solo4114
Hetnikik
Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:03 pm
#13






ValiantHalibut wrote:

2) For the second item, how about this: Rather then having a waypoint to travel to you need to reach a certain "safe zone" in each system in order to initiate the jump to hyperspace. It won't just be a waypoint, rather it'll be an entire section of space that you have to find and remember. You could restrict jumps to certain systems depending on which zone you're in - for example, the safe jump zone to get to Dathomir might be a very small, hard to reach spot in one or two sectors.

While in space any "enforcement" NPC's can target you and scan you. Have them act like real cops - if you don't stop they'll call ahead and have someone waiting for you. If you do stop they'll initiate a dialogue ("Do you know what you're carrying there, son?") allowing you to "fast talk." If you just start blasting, though, you can expect to face rapidly increasing waves of enemies - or just a few high-tier gunboats.





Why can't we have Star Destroyers or Interdictors. I mean Han had three on himaround once a movie. Plus when ever you look into the sky over Tatooine at least what do you see...where are they whenI go into space.







ValiantHalibut wrote:
Oh - I'm all for JTL content for smugglers. If there's not I'll be very, very angry. I'm just playing devil's advocate, really

My feelings about the NPC interactions in space are tied to my feelings about player inter-dependency. Try this on for size: Rather then having one "contraband-X" we have a group of items that are clssified as Highly Illegal - Kill On Sight Illegal by any authority figure for whatever reasons. These items could be useable by players but would be very optional. They wouldn't do anything that you needed to be competative but they would add something. I'm trying to figure out a way to do that, but it's difficult. Anyway, any time you're carrying Highly Illegal cargo as a smuggler you're facing risk from NPCs on the ground and in space. As such, I don't think random spawns are the way to go - I think that increasing NPC enforcement presence in space sectors and establishing routine patrol routes is the way to go.

See, I don't want to see the spawn be tied to a mission - I don't like the idea that you'll always come across an Imperial flight that wants to scan you. I, generally, prefer systemic solutions as opposed to discreet solutions. For example, you launch into Naboo space and you know you're taking a risk - there might be some RSF fighters right there as you load. However, if they're not you can use previous knowledge about their routines and patrol routes to avoid them and get your cargo where you want it without detection. If it was just mission based then you'd know that every time you took a mission you were going to run into a situation and it would take away some of the excitement of it.

I still also think that it would be better if the enemies you fought would build as you went. If there's, say, three TIE fighters that show up and agro you (scan turns out positive, you try to run, they don't like your smell, whatever) they would call in reinforcements. It can be assumed that whatever base launched them is keeping track, so if you waste them they'll send something worse. If you run and the TIEs can't catch you, they'll call in something that can. This'll keep going - the ideal, obviously, would be trying to outrun a crazy, "you're going to die" outnumbering force through an asteroid belt as you try to reach the hyper-out point.




More awsome idea's i would love it if I could go threw like 10 missions and be like "haha stupid imperials can't even find me" then all of a sudden have 2 imp corvettes an Interdictor and like 3 squads of TIEs then think to myself oh God i'm going to die. Then pull a Han Solo out of my @$$ and some how get away with out even a scratch on my YT.


By the wayI love your sig quote ValiantHalibut



Message Edited by Hetnikik on 10-18-2005 02:19 AM



NGE is here and we're still just 'Rs'.
Satrqa Kambo
W.T.F.
Master Smuggler
Tarquinas

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