Smuggler Archive

Message Edited by Ternque01 on 01-07-2005 01:06 AM

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Darth_Spike wrote:

I started thinking before the negative comments agianst some of my other posts, and went to the Jedi Forumns and there I found the Post by Gizmo stikied to the top. AN EXCELENT POST.

That started my little idea engine on another enirely differnt line of thought, incorperating my thoughts on GCW, Player Bounties and other post.

Like Gizmo suggested, break FRS Jedi out into thieir own seperate Faction. Then, take the concept the Devs put into JtL and put in into the Ground Game. Right now we have 2 game factions in the GG, Rebel and Imperial. Change that to match JtL - and Tie the 2 together (well, maybe - not convinced on that myself yet). Instead of just going up to a Rebel or Imperial recruiter, send them to the Rebel or Imperial Theme parks. The end reward for finishing those TP is theoption to join the faction, and then the Faction recruiters that exist can take you from there.

There is already a Jaba TP, let that guid players into joining that faction. I think Lok gets you into Black Sun as Pilot, so let it be on the GG as well. Make a RSF and CorSec theme park too.

Thining about it more, let each GG/Space Faction have certain allies and enemies with other factions. A CorSec and RSF GG faction member may not be able to joint the Hutt Space Faction, but they could join one of the others - same would go for Space to Ground. Like the Current Rebel and Imperial factions, various GG faction perks would exist, and each faction has different perks.

Player Bounties (non-Jedi) and some ides I've been simmering on with Commando, Ranger, Squad Leaderand Smugglers would work via these varried Factions.

Commandos (must be Overt) can take missions that go after enemy allgned (including Player) material support targets, such as harvestors and factories, stuff like that, The Commandos can put together Crack Teams to aid them, so other professions would have to join the Commandos group to participate.

Cool idea. It will be difficult to keep the huge number of harvestors and factories protected though. There would be a TON of soft targets to hit.

Rangers (covert and overt) get Intelligence and Counter Intelligence missions. Covert missions serve the purpose of geting themselves into another organization, via Entertainer groups, to get close to information. Not entirely sure on the mechanic here, but it would be kinda kewl. Overt missions are meant to track and attemot to discover who is attempting to infiltrate.

Perhaps have the commando missions would not begin untila good period of timeafter the mission is taken. This will allow Rangers the time to run their recon missions and find out the intel on the commando missions. Give Rangers time to respond back to their Squad Leaders, who then deal with the threat.

Smugglers (usually covert) would get missions that involve getting specialized goods like weapons, armor, or whatever, to locations shuld not be getting these porducts. Pit the Smugglers against the Rangers. Covert Rangers are seeking to discover which smugglers are currently working for who. Overt Rangers take that information and Track them down, and deal with the Smugglers. Commandos get their missions based on other information gatered by the covert Rangers, like which crafter provided the material support to the smugglers, and they take out X number of factories or harvestors, or maybe vendors.

A few problems. Because everyone carries and buys their own armor and weapons, this will have to be heavy-grade military equipment. Perhaps a smuggler could smuggle a temporary bunker or heavy weapon in (i.e. Ion cannon). Have these heavy-grade military equipment be obtained from NPC smuggler missions ORRRR just have normal crafters make them, and have smugglers as the only ones who can purchase/transport/etc them.

Squad Leaders get Overt missions, going after defensive missions defending firendly Facion Allgned cities (player and NPC)against Commands, or being sent to go after Enemy Facion Allgned cities (player and NPC). - kill X number of overt supporters.

I reallllllly like this idea. It gives Squad Leaders a sense of purpose.

Player Citiy citizens should be able to vote every so often on what Faction to allign with, or to be unaligned, orlet the Mayor decide, and the citizens vote the Mayor out if they don't like the faction alignment.

I think cities that vote for a faction should enjoy random spawns of NPC's of that faction in their town for protecting their harvestors and factories.

Player Bounties are based on mission Failures. Ifone of the above missions fails, the members of that team become marked. Marked by who, well that would depend. Han Solo makes it obvious that the Hutts would mark their own for Failure, and I imagind Black Sun would as well. Rebel and Imperial would likely be marked by the oposing side. I think the smae would go for CorSec and RSF, which I see more likely the Hutts or Black Sun (I see CorSec and RSF as allies and not enemies, and they would be neutral to rebels and imperials I guess).

Because this is a significant amount of players being put on the bounty hunter terminals, a individual player might not even consider being on the terminals a real risk because they are 1 out of 1000 bounties on the terminals. On the other hand, it keeps a player guessing if the Empire/Rebellion is on to them!

Padawansare not yet able to join the Jedi Factions, but should be forced to join the other Factions. DArk Jedi and Light Jedi have various factions they are friendly to, nad there might be some overlap. To get their Jedi XP, they participate in the other missions, but as members of the other teams, not as a lead. This gets them marked if the Team fails, instead of a visibility system.

Now the FRS JEdi Factions, of Fark and Light Jedi. Here's wher eit could get interesting. This would be a HIGH LEVEL set of factions

For Dark Jedi, there has always been an association with Dark Jedi, Sith and Madalorians. Since the Empire is ruled by the 2 remaining Sith, they allow the Dark Jedi the rebuilding Mandalorians to operate unhidered as long as they do not interfere with the Sith power and domination. This Dark Alliance joins Dark Jedi with the New Mandalorians to associate with them. To become a New Mandalorian, one must be in the War Party that sucessfully enables someone to gain the full suit of Mandalorian Armor(which I believe are Commandos, Rangers, Bounty Hunters, and Squad Leaders). All participants involved would get an invite unless they are in one of the Factions unfriendly to the Dark Alliance, and the individuals that now possess the full set of Mando receive an invite as well., but they mustfistr take steps to realign themselves with a Faction they deem approprate The Mandalorians are able to begin crating/using weapons specialized for taking down Light Jedi, and the Remnant of the Old Republic - described below.

The Light Jedi still serve the purpose of reforging the Old Republic, but do so apart from the Rebel Alliance - they are allied with the Rebels indirectly, but do not directly participate with the Rebels (this is a slight divergence to Gizmo's vision). They seek out the Best of the Best of all professions - my thought is individuals that have completed one or more Force Sensitve trees, but do not wish to be Jedi. These Remnants of the Ols Republic utilize the Force as well, giving them tools to combat the Dark Alliance of the Sith's Empire,the Fallen Jedi and New Mandalorians.

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I love the scope of these ideas. If the devs read and take influence from them, I will be happy.

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:

One thing that needs to be done is the *REMOVAL* of the two Jedi enclaves and the two Jedi councils. This doesn't bend continuity, this breaks it completely.

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Just curious Nick, what does this have to do with my post?

This post isnt an attempt to write new code, its an attempt to lay out a new dynamic between players in this GAME. It is an attempt to make the game less about ONLY Jedi and more about THE REST OF US.

An attempt to make several Factions wars, instead of just 2. To bring diffent interactions than what we have now. I am hoping that this idea would give us so much to do to have FUN that we don't even know the Jedi exist anymore.

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:

I just want a semblance of continuity.

There should be NPC Jedi extermination squads too. Unlike having Darth Vader chillin' out on Naboo. Balance it so that if these extermination squads don't make players lose as much experience on incapacitation/death, and also give survivalbadges to players who've gone against extreme odds.

Plus, if an extermination squad appears, its like a duel between the squad and the player, normal PvP and PvE takes a back seat.

Then have varying degrees of extermination squads based on skill level/visibility.

Basic squad: Six Storm Troopers

Two or three levels later: Twelve Storm Commandos

Two or three levels later: Twelve Dark Troopers

Two or three levels later: Imperial Inquisitor plus several Dark Troopers

(Survival grants you a badge "... has survived the Imperial Inquisition.")

Eventually, you reach the final exterminator: Darth Vader

He'd be incapable of dieing, but once you get his HAM down to like, 5%, combat ends, he says something along the lines of "Indeed, you are a worth opponent." then he hops back in his shuttle and leaves. Next time, he comes with friends.

(This grants you the badge "... has survived an encounter with Lord Vader.")

If a squad takes you out, it reduces the Jedi's visability to a tenth of what it was, and things revert as old battlefields used to, you get immediately rezzed where you are, with as much HAM as you had when the squad showed up.

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Darth_Spike wrote:

1. Officially change the setting of this game to be between Episodes 3 and 4. This would mean the Jedi aren't all gone yet, and the Galaxy we see in ANH is still being shaped.

2. Change the planets Yavin and Endor to be differntly named planets. The terrain and most of the creatures could be EXACTLY the same (well, no ewoks), just name those 2 planets somehting else. I was just playing Star Wars Rebellion (old school, I know) and it had 197 planets not being used in SWG right now - each with a back story. All of them came from some EU source...it isnt like the Devs have to invent something...it's already there.

With these 2 changes, we can no longer complain about there being too many Jedi, becasue there are no sources at all that describe the period between ROTS and ANH. Trust me, I have complained as much as anyone about the serious breaks in continutity. All my complaints were founded on the Devs statement that the Game Setting was between ANH and RTOJ - I never heard if it was before or after ESB. That world is very well described for us, but prior to ANH is not so clear. It was a mistake to set the game in the time period they did AND let people play Jedi at the same time.

Will this fix every continuity problem or make everybody happy - hell no. At least it will force people to use some new arguments to complain.

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1. The Rebellion is far smaller in this time period, possibely nothing more than ideas forming in certain people's minds (most importantly Garm Bel Ibis and Mon Mothma) and as such the GCW would be next to nothing, or indeed none exhistant; this is unnacceptable when the game is supposed to be centered around the GCW, not the existance of Jedi.


2. If the game were to move in any direction I would hope and indeed I'm betting most would agree, that it would be forward in the time line, allowing us to eventually experience say the battle for Hoth etc.

I would dearly like to see a system for Jedi that sees them outside the fringes of galactic society and indeed for the most part out of view, but then I would also like to see their numbers greatly diminished. I can only hope that the devs find a design solution to appease as many people as possible (hopefully myself included ).

As for your role suggestions for Smuggler, it's already been mentioned that the type of hardware being smuggled would need to be pehaps re-though, but that's certainly one role I see Smugglers fitting well. I had also thought that, should our Slicing abilities be extended to what is seen in the EU, namely aquiringand planting information, that we would be able to use those abilities to great effect in the GCW; however, that desire relies on many ifs.

Nice post though, I enjoyed reading it

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WesBelden wrote:

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Darth_Spike wrote:

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There are two very large problems with that for me;

The Rebellion is far smaller in this time period, possibely nothing more than ideas forming in certain people's minds (most importantly Garm Bel Ibis and Mon Mothma) and as such the GCW would be next to nothing, or indeed none exhistant; this is unnacceptable when the game is supposed to be centered around the GCW, not the existance of Jedi.

There are a few flaws in this argument.

Firstly, the very name "Rebel Alliance" indicates to me a formal treatywhere seperate Rebel organizations opposed to the Empire for reasons they each felt were legitimate. This is seen in many civil wars, including the US Civil War. Each stte was rebeling independantly at first, and then they formed a Confederacy to bring strength to their numbers - but it could not have happened if they had not agreed upon their legitimate reasons for Rebeling. I keep saying "agreed upon legitimate reasons" becasue ther are always criminal organizations that are agianst the Government for reasons that may not jive with political reasons. Therefore the name indicates that at one time there would have been SEVERAL Rebel groups fighting the Empire, and either slowly or all at once joined up with each other to fight a common enemy and ultimately for the same cause. You mentioned Garm Bel Ibis, and it was made clear in the EU that he still fought the Empire, but his personal differences with Mon Motha kept him from Alling his Rebel Band with hers - 2 seperate groups. There isthe concept of non-exclusivity - just becasue only one or 2 groups is described does not preclude other groups from also existing. There could have been additional groups that also did not Ally with anyone, but rather faught on their own against the empire.

It would stand to reason that the RA we see in ANH survived for as long as they did BECASUE of grouping together. It would also stand to reason that solo groups (no relation to our game) like Garm's would have either been wiped out, or just believed to be wiped-out (which is Garm's case).

This leads to a second flaw, found in the Holovid of Leia that Obi Wan sees. "In our darkest hour". Leia's Alliance was at it last thread, and had to go digging up Obi Wan from hiding using one of the Twins to ensure for Obi Wan that it was not a ruse. He was their last hope. That means they had been fighting for a while, and had exhausted all other resources - they had to bring out the final weapon against the Empires final weapon - the Death Star.

Therefore it would have been possible for not one, but MANY Rebel groups. My original post was trying to take this into account, althoug I didn't feel the need to spell it out. Several groups opposed to the Empire (RSF, CorSec, whoever else) as seperate fighting forces - before they Alied themselves.

This would also help account for the Jedi and Dark Jedi easier - I didn't say perfectly.

Let me throw this out too - it is easier to squeze the game between ROTS and ANH than putting it POST ROTJ. "Spike, are you on crack?!?!?!" No, think about it. Where after ROTJ do you put the game to account for Player Jedi. Everything After Endor is pretty much written out. If you think continuity arguments are bad now, try putting this after thrawn, but before some other EU storyline - - - I shudder to think about it.

The period I suggested has far less detail written about it...more hazzy on details. It is therefore more open - WE WRITE IT OUT THRU THIS GAME

If the game were to move in any direction I would hope and indeed I'm betting most would agree, that it would be forward in the time line, allowing us to eventually experience say the battle for Hoth etc.

I wrote another post describing what you are talking about, but the route I took was a tad larger in scale, and it was meant to be cyclical, and would take 6 or 12 months to do a cycle (I coudn't decide, there were good reasons for both lengths). I went from Before Yavin thru After Endor, so we could live the story, and feel we were a part of it. Anyway, the Jedi Purge thing was never gonna fly..can you imagine the screaming and whining...I try not to.

As for your role suggestions for Smuggler, it's already been mentioned that the type of hardware being smuggled would need to be pehaps re-though, but that's certainly one role I see Smugglers fitting well. I had also thought that, should our Slicing abilities be extended to what is seen in the EU, namely aquiringand planting information, that we would be able to use those abilities to great effect in the GCW; however, that desire relies on many ifs.

To be honest, I didn't want my original post to seem like a ended tale, but an open ended one - please go to the original post and help me flesh it out. By no means or intent was I trying to LIMIT Smugglers to just that role. I was actually hoping that by placing more factions it would open the door to whole new opportunities.

If CorSec and RSF weren't enemies, but they werent gonna join up with each other either - what kind of interactions does that casue...some from each group would be all for helping the other, and others would have a trust no-one attitude.

The Dark Alliance I brought up has Dark Jedi, and the Dark Side is an endless quest for power. The Sith let them opporate as long as they don't interfere with the Sith Dominace and power...how does the Sith ensure the Dark Alliance never gets powerful enough to become a threat...the Empire might be treating the Dark Alliance like family in January, and then the Emporer decides they need their numbers thinned, and now the Empire and Dark Alliance are enemies.

The Hutts and Black Sun (and Valarians, and several others if people want) may all go in and out of favor with each other, and the other factions. The GCW stops being this nice pretty Blue versus Grey. Shifting alliances and enimies...and maybe that could be brought about via the players own actions. One server might have Hutts and RSF as best buds while on another server its Every faction for themselves.

O, yeah -there's also the Neutrals, who simply wont join anyone. They walk around without fear of PvP, watching the madness. They get to have fun their way, and so do we...and it would all be in the same game.

Nice post though, I enjoyed reading it

Please, everyone reading this - go to the original post and add to it. Don't think details, think a bit larger in scope. If you want to look at it from a Smugglers' perspective, that's fine but think in terms of the factions too. Like Smugglers in one faction do things one way, and have certain mission tyoes, and other factions could have others. It doesn't have to be cookie cutter.

One Final note, coding it isn't as hard as you would think. There is already the basic faction system, and Covert and Overt. The 2 factions have some differnet perks and items available. JtL already started expanding it, and we ahve Diffferent Privateer pilots at the same tier with different ships depending on what planet you are on. The Devs have already laid a lot of the groundwork for this. Now its just a matter of them continuing to move in that direction - and if we tell them what things we want out of it, they may actually try it our way a little ( I said a little -we all know better than that)

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The basic history of the Alliance goes something like this: Mon Mothma, a prominent politician and galactic senator, set up a network of like minded people who opposed the Empire; along with Garm Bel Ibis, a Corellian politician(who was contemplating joiningwhen his family was murdered by the Empire, whch kind of clinched the deal) theygrew larger and eventually became an open rebellion. It was these humans that then united various other species, such as the Bothans, the Mon Calammari etc. into an Alliance against the Empire, hence the name Rebel Alliance.

Those events took a fair while and it took time for the Alliance to grow and prepare; so much time that they only had their first decisive victory just before ANH begins.

As to their darkest hour, that could just as easily apply to the entire Galaxy; there was after all a planet destroying space station being built.

Anyway, I'll go read your original post , oh and I didn't think you were trying to limit a Smuggler's role, what you wroteis good

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WesBelden wrote:

The basic history of the Alliance goes something like this:....Really good stuff......

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Message Edited by Darth_Spike on 01-07-2005 02:42 PM