Smuggler Archive
Thread: Concussion Shot Changes
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teshma
Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:04 pm
#1
Hi,
Those timers have no place in PvE at all, makes a mockery of Smuggler Crowd Control.
Cheers
Teshma.
Those timers have no place in PvE at all, makes a mockery of Smuggler Crowd Control.
Cheers
Teshma.
Wild__Bill
Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:41 pm
#2
teshma wrote:
Hi,
Those timers have no place in PvE at all, makes a mockery of Smuggler Crowd Control.
Cheers
Teshma.
I'm not going to argue the point whether the targetside resist timers are needed or not. The devs have put them in the game like they did for the KD's. Expect to see the same thing happen to the Pistoleer root soon too, as the devs have stated that they are going to deal with the chain rooting and mezzing. My point is since they are adding these target side resist timers whether we like them or not,we should pushto at least have the devs return the cool downs to what they were so that the specials can indeed be used for "crowd" control.
teshma
Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:29 pm
#3
Hi,
For my part, I would like to see specials that WORK as intended on both side of the fence (PvP / PvE).
They have seen in other SOE games the same rules do not work and have split them out (much like the 75% damage reduction for PvP in SWG).
I see no point in continually nerfing PvE specials due to abuse in PvP, just put resists / timers on them there like they do in other games which have been balanced for years.
To me, reducing the cooldown is just a bandaid on a much bigger problem, which is the bit I would like to see fixed.
Cheers
Teshma.
For my part, I would like to see specials that WORK as intended on both side of the fence (PvP / PvE).
They have seen in other SOE games the same rules do not work and have split them out (much like the 75% damage reduction for PvP in SWG).
I see no point in continually nerfing PvE specials due to abuse in PvP, just put resists / timers on them there like they do in other games which have been balanced for years.
To me, reducing the cooldown is just a bandaid on a much bigger problem, which is the bit I would like to see fixed.
Cheers
Teshma.
BeigeKnight
Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:40 pm
#4
Appearently they are changing our "role" from Crowd Control to A-Couple-of-People-Control...
Taln2
Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:55 pm
#5
teshma wrote:
Hi,
Those timers have no place in PvE at all, makes a mockery of Smuggler Crowd Control.
Cheers
Teshma.
Ok, well....
Insofar as PvE is concerned, yes, timers are necessary. If there aren't any timers on recast and reuse, then you essentially have (speaking in general, design theory) a class that can practically solo any content in the game. That's game breaking.
PvP is the same ordeal. You don't want one class that can take on an entire group of people by forcing them into repeated 1v1s by use of mesmerize (read this line carefully before you flame please 
). That's also game breaking.
). That's also game breaking.Now, there's a good balance to be had even with mezzing, called "diminishing returns." That concept allows a person to be chain-rooted/mesmerized, but it's limited. Each successive root or mez lasts less than the full duration until the effectiveness bottoms out and the target becomes immune to the effect. That is possible to do code-wise in SWG, although it would be extremely tricky (and programmers know when things get tricky, they get bugged to all hell and beyond, so it's usually not worth it).
Of course, we probably won't be seeing that anytime in er.. ever. So, yeah. That's why Smuggler is where it's at today.
teshma
Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:14 pm
#6
Hi,
"Insofar as PvE is concerned, yes, timers are necessary. If there aren't any timers on recast and reuse, then you essentially have (speaking in general, design theory) a class that can practically solo any content in the game. That's game breaking."
Properly implemented Mezzes don't allow you to solo anything. It was the chaining of the short Dazes that caused the main problem, the long recast on concussion stoppped it from being used for that.
Concussion shot could only really be used for control, either singularly or AOE with commando weapons.That was its purpose and the stated purpose of the Smuggler profession.
"PvP is the same ordeal. You don't want one class that can take on an entire group of people by forcing them into repeated 1v1s by use of mesmerize (read this line carefully before you flame please ). That's also game breaking."
As I said, PvP SHOULD have different rules like other games have. With increased resistances / timers to even the playing field.
"Now, there's a good balance to be had even with mezzing, called "diminishing returns." That concept allows a person to be chain-rooted/mesmerized, but it's limited. Each successive root or mez lasts less than the full duration until the effectiveness bottoms out and the target becomes immune to the effect. That is possible to do code-wise in SWG, although it would be extremely tricky (and programmers know when things get tricky, they get bugged to all hell and beyond, so it's usually not worth it).
Of course, we probably won't be seeing that anytime in er.. ever. So, yeah. That's why Smuggler is where it's at today."
Wouldn't have a problem with that but we know it won't happen so is not an option.
So what we are left with is have both PvP and PvE constantly jugling for balance or bite the bullet and split them now to balance them properly.
Cheers
Teshma.
"Insofar as PvE is concerned, yes, timers are necessary. If there aren't any timers on recast and reuse, then you essentially have (speaking in general, design theory) a class that can practically solo any content in the game. That's game breaking."
Properly implemented Mezzes don't allow you to solo anything. It was the chaining of the short Dazes that caused the main problem, the long recast on concussion stoppped it from being used for that.
Concussion shot could only really be used for control, either singularly or AOE with commando weapons.That was its purpose and the stated purpose of the Smuggler profession.
"PvP is the same ordeal. You don't want one class that can take on an entire group of people by forcing them into repeated 1v1s by use of mesmerize (read this line carefully before you flame please ). That's also game breaking."
As I said, PvP SHOULD have different rules like other games have. With increased resistances / timers to even the playing field.
"Now, there's a good balance to be had even with mezzing, called "diminishing returns." That concept allows a person to be chain-rooted/mesmerized, but it's limited. Each successive root or mez lasts less than the full duration until the effectiveness bottoms out and the target becomes immune to the effect. That is possible to do code-wise in SWG, although it would be extremely tricky (and programmers know when things get tricky, they get bugged to all hell and beyond, so it's usually not worth it).
Of course, we probably won't be seeing that anytime in er.. ever. So, yeah. That's why Smuggler is where it's at today."
Wouldn't have a problem with that but we know it won't happen so is not an option.
So what we are left with is have both PvP and PvE constantly jugling for balance or bite the bullet and split them now to balance them properly.
Cheers
Teshma.
Sirisandir
Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:22 pm
#7
You COULD just pick up novice commando and use one of their area attack weapons to get it to stick for multiple creatures, if thats your problem. Just an alternative...
teshma
Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:42 pm
#8
Hi,
Yes I have and quite a few people do, but things get even worse then, imagine :-
AOE Mezz 5 Mobs - 40secs till Mezz breaks
Group starts killing 1
Mezz timer runs out and 4 Mobs are now un-Mezzable and all agroed on the Smuggler.
Yes you could use Panic shot and 4 Mobs standing around you hoping they become Mezzable befor Panic shot wears off....
Or you could FD and let the group die...
As an old EQ Enchanter, this does not equal a 5 in Crowd Control.
Individual resists would be much better then this bodge.
Cheers
Teshma.
Yes I have and quite a few people do, but things get even worse then, imagine :-
AOE Mezz 5 Mobs - 40secs till Mezz breaks
Group starts killing 1
Mezz timer runs out and 4 Mobs are now un-Mezzable and all agroed on the Smuggler.
Yes you could use Panic shot and 4 Mobs standing around you hoping they become Mezzable befor Panic shot wears off....
Or you could FD and let the group die...
As an old EQ Enchanter, this does not equal a 5 in Crowd Control.
Individual resists would be much better then this bodge.
Cheers
Teshma.
Wild__Bill
Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:01 am
#9
Does Concussion Shot still have the ridiculously long cool down?
If so, then we really need to work on getting that removed with the target side resist timer now in place. There is really no need for a long cool down and the target resist timer double whammy. At least allow us to use the shot to daze multiple targets quickly as needed.
Xoreshear
Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:06 am
#10
Wild__Bill wrote:
Does Concussion Shot still have the ridiculously long cool down?
If so, then we really need to work on getting that removed with the target side resist timer now in place. There is really no need for a long cool down and the target resist timer double whammy. At least allow us to use the shot to daze multiple targets quickly as needed.
/agree
Message Edited by Xoreshear on 07-19-2005 03:06 PM
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