Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
GreenMarine wrote:
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Because PvP costs you time. Time to find a doctor *again* to get buffed. To wait in line for that same doctor. And then to wait for the shuttle *again* to get to wherever you were going in the first place. Up to 30 minutes of time for someone who can play 2 hours per night, 2 nights per week is a significant impact, even if his armor won't degrade in the death.
I don't consider this a valid argument against PvP. Those are the penalties for dying, not the penalties for PvP. Most PvEers are saying "I don't mind a penalty that might involve my death, but I don't want to die to another player."
The reason players do not like PvP is that
- PvP is harder. This isn't a major reason, but it is true.
- PvP involves emotions. Sometimes nasty ones. Revenge, anger, and so forth.
- PvP approximates murder. Some players aren't comfortable with that.
- PvP is unpredictable. It involves a different skill set from PvE (Although its a subset of PvE).
I believe 2 & 3 to be the main reasons. You'll see players saying they want PvE bounty hunters to come after them, but not players. The penalty for failure is nearly the same. The loss of time is invariant.
One major part ofthe disinclination tojoin PvPis that PvP has nothing to do with skill, even though the players believe it does.
The fact is - in an RPG, the player with the best kit will win. The player with the best template will win.
In SWG it's all about anarrow set of classes that are head and shoulders above every other. When those classes meet, it's all about who has the better loot-enhanced gear (DOT weapons, krayt jawas, acklay stun batons, Spider-venom poison, etc).
Nowhere in there is a casual player going to do well - which reinforces a defeatest attitude leading to avoiding PvP again. Not to mention the taunting that normally happens afterward.
The issue with "concent" and PvP largely stems from the desire of the majority of the playerbase to experience all the content their class has available without having to subject themselves to player combat and the attendant headaches. I personally have no problem with BH missions, but many players don't want to have to deal with a player combat encounter just to play their class fully as designed.
1) Spices and other items (like really good powerups or maybe skill tapes) are acquired through NPC smuggling activities. The greatness of the item is directly proportional to the skill level of the smuggler (as in the better the smuggler the more the "boss" will trust the person with). All of these items are HIGHLY desirable to players. The smuggler has the choice to complete their NPC mission, or to sell these highly desirable items to PC players for a LOT more money, but roll the dice with the bounty hunters.
What is to stop a smuggler with a Master Bounty Hunter friend from getting the skill tape, handing it over to his MBH friend, then having his MBH friend kill him to get rid of his visibiity? And doing it again and again and again.
(2) Slicing, Spices, and items acquired from smugglers have little or no contraband properties. This keeps them desirable to players, so them will want to pay smugglers top dollar for the items (without being hassled). Since only smugglers can acquire these items, it makes no sense to keep penalize players for buying them from smugglers.
But spice is illegal. For a comparison, if you by Heroin from a drug dealer, it isn't just the drug dealer that is breaking the law.
(3) Substantially increase contraband scans and power of the troopers near star ports (NOTE: Slicing, Spices, and items acquired from smugglers have little or no contraband properties).
DON'T FREAK OUT YET...I'M NOT DONE.
Create a brand new class of "highly illegal" items, that people will get scanned and killed for possessing if they try to planet hop with them.Smugglers are near required to move these items. These are NOT items that will bug and annoy players every single time they play (like guns and armor), but rarer items that make sense.
I like the REALLY illegal stuff idea!
Dapper_Dan wrote:
Fun before Continuity
Disagree. If we disregard continuity for fun then we are no longer playing Star Wars. We are just playing a futuristic game that has parts of Star Wars asbackdrop. Part of the fun is being part of the continuity.
It would be fun (for some)if we could fight and kill Vader, Palpatine, Luke, etc. But it would destroy continuity and not make this Star Wars anymore.
You can have fun while staying within continuity. You can add various spices or make up new ones without destroying continuity as GM stated.
But we shouldn't give continuity a backseat. It should be at the forefront.
GreenMarine wrote:
Ipseck wrote:
I'd gonna make a few comments about the whole "force pvp" issue. First of all, the term itself is meant to incite people. Second of all, whats the big deal? Whats the difference between fighting an npc and a pc?
I agree that the term is meant to be incindiary. There are different kinds of PvP and "voluntary" and "involuntary" is too black and white. Anyway, the reasons people don't like PvP generally have to do with the emotions involved. Getting beaten by another playercan behumiliating. It can be frustrating. It can be depressing. It can be enraging. It approximates violent behavior in a way the player may not be comfortable with. PvP is IS emotionally more charged than PvE.
The result of failure is nearly the same (the player is dead). The fear isn't dying because you ripped off Jabba one too many times. It's having to face all the stuff that comes along with a player vs. player encounter.
Waste93 wrote:
Dapper_Dan wrote:
Fun before Continuity
Disagree. If we disregard continuity for fun then we are no longer playing Star Wars. We are just playing a futuristic game that has parts of Star Wars asbackdrop. Part of the fun is being part of the continuity.
It would be fun (for some)if we could fight and kill Vader, Palpatine, Luke, etc. But it would destroy continuity and not make this Star Wars anymore.
You can have fun while staying within continuity. You can add various spices or make up new ones without destroying continuity as GM stated.
But we shouldn't give continuity a backseat. It should be at the forefront.
I could not have said it better.
GreenMarine wrote:
Ipseck wrote:
I'd gonna make a few comments about the whole "force pvp" issue. First of all, the term itself is meant to incite people. Second of all, whats the big deal? Whats the difference between fighting an npc and a pc?I agree that the term is meant to be incindiary. There are different kinds of PvP and "voluntary" and "involuntary" is too black and white. Anyway, the reasons people don't like PvP generally have to do with the emotions involved. Getting beaten by another player can be humiliating. It can be frustrating. It can be depressing. It can be enraging. It approximates violent behavior in a way the player may not be comfortable with. PvP is IS emotionally more charged than PvE.The result of failure is nearly the same (the player is dead). The fear isn't dying because you ripped off Jabba one too many times. It's having to face all the stuff that comes along with a player vs. player encounter.
Also, the term "forced PvP" is, in my opinion, meaningless. Holocron (for those of us players who remember him!) once said that joining a faction is "signing up" for PvP. Similarly, if you rip off Jabba (or whoever) then you're making a choice, and you know that choice can result in PvP. So, in reality, it isn't "forced PvP" since you made a concious choice that you know can directly place you in a PvP situation.
Anyway, back on the more broad topic of Smuggling... if it hasn't been suggested already, then I think a having a form of Feign Death for the JTL would be a great thing for Smugglers. Think of it this way: You're flying to Rori in your ship, when suddenly a small squad of patrolling TIE fighters appears on your radar. You know that you're transporting a load of illegal cargo, so you've got three basic options: 1. Hope they don't stop you to inspect your ship, or 2. Blast them first, or 3. Run. What if you had a fourth option that involved Feign Death, where you could completely power-down your ship to appear like a disabled piece of space-trash? Maybe there could even be rules to using it, like any passengers on the ship have to keep quiet and not move around much or else the enemy ships will detect something coming from the ship. I think that'd be a very fun thing to keep in mind when adding Smuggling to JTL.
GreenMarine wrote:
Holy CRAP can you guys talk! In all seriousness, though, I'm very impressed with the level of participation in this discussion. I'm up to page...25 or so.
LOL, that's funny as hell
Funny you mention that, our gameplay code is written in Java.
Rueger_Karde wrote:
Here is a little programming (Im using Java as the example, since thats the language I use most) You have these things called classes that are chunks of programming.