Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
Herms wrote:
Oufoak from bria here axob. hows it going dude? long time no see.
I'm afraid to say you miss the point about pvp entirely.
I'm sure i speak for many when i say that playing versus other players is not what we play for. I don't even want to associate with these pvp types, I've spoken to many and can not stand the 'haha owned' attitude that is part and parcel of PVP.
I had enough of that when I played FPS's it's what made me quit them and come to SWG for a nice quiet life. being forced to PVP would certainly stop me from picking smuggler up again in time for the revamp.
I have been a strong proponent of structures that allow just PvE smugglers to not even think twice if they will have to PvP. Like the guy says above me... check the past 40 pages. Quite frankly i'm tired of having to post and repost solutions when half of you PvE guys don't acknowledge that and move on. I fail to not see your point of view. I'm very crystal on it.
I will say this one last time, 95% of the smuggling system is PvE. PvE missions, NPC thugs, authorities, etc... More PvE than you can imagine. As a smuggler, I will have to face 95% of PvE threats. The thing is that if you don't want PvP you have additional PvE content (which is cool btw) that you can use to never have to deal with PvP.
Why don't you PvE guys acknowledge that you have a 100% chance to never have to PvP. That's exactly the point you guys aren't acknowledging. Breaking the law to excess results in in either one of two punishments - one is PvE and one is PvP. The PvE one is the PvE content of covering your ass - that's a smuggler's job, and if you fail to see fun in going to another smuggler and working with him/her to clear your name, I can't help you. The PvP punishment is that of a PC bounty hunter - you loose whatever buffs, foods, and stomach fill time you had in use before you died.
The PvE punishment kinda sucks, but is kinda cool. The PvP punishment kinda sucks, but is kinda cool. Stop the whining. GreenMarines idea is balanced as it is. Look on my large list of ways to even further accomodate you PvE guys - so just hear me - it's not that i don't care, or don't have any compassion for your thoughts and feelings, it's that I want GreenMarines contraband system more thanI can stand, and i'll be hell bent if it isn't coded because a few people are to lazy to clear their damn names from the terminals.
That is my point of view. I understand yours, but you guys have to realize that GM's smuggler revamp is over 95% PvE and 100% PvE if you choose it to be. There's the respect that you get for your playstyle, you get to choose not to participate in PvP. I've had enough of these posts that say you are forced into PvP. No more, I ain't listening. You have gotten outta me ideas to help you guys stay out of PvP easier, you have gotten me to understand your POV, do you want me to bleed for you???
You have the tools.
You have the talent.
You have the choice.
Forced PvP my ***.
Message Edited by Istin on 06-20-2004 11:20 AM
Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-20-2004 01:34 PM
Message Edited by RohmEnari on 06-20-2004 02:49 AM
Message Edited by RohmEnari on 06-20-2004 02:49 AM
Some Cold Hard Facts:
1) You are not being forced into PvP consequences. If anything you are forcing those who are open to PvP to sacrifice so that you can play YOUR playstyle without ever considering those around you.
As long as you are offered a CHOICE to avoid the consequence of PvP you are NOT being forced. GM never said in his proposal that you wouldor would not have an equal opportunity to level up Smuggler XP without gaining visibility. It's just not there. You can argue that it is implied but it is not there. If a system was installed that let a character know that one set of missions gives you less money but equal XP than another mission that gives you more money but you earn visibility if you fail. Then the job is done.
Some may argue that they should pay the same- which leads to the next cold hard fact-
2) PvP IS harder than PvE.
True, you can code some pretty tough NPCs and you can code them to adapt to a players attacks- anyone who has played Metal of Honor knows that- BUT no one can code an NPC to adapt and overcome as well as the human brain. A PC will track your habits, bribe your friends, camp your house, study websites for hunting tips and work tirelessly until they can beat you. AIs will never do that.
On top of all that a PC JUST MIGHT call you a noob when they get done with you-
A person who is willing to open themselves up to that deserves greater rewards than those who don't.
To expect to get the same rewards for PvE as PvP is unbalanced and unfair to the person who decides to put up with those consequences.
Which brings me to thenext cold hard fact-
3) You paid thesame fee to enter the raise but that does NOT guarantee you will win a medal.
YES you do pay thesame amount of money every month as the rest of us butthat doesn't mean any character you make will be equal to any character I make. If you choose to accept the consequence of using contraband then you get the bennies; If you do not you DON'T.
If you bust your ass to unlock then you get the bennies of using an extra character and FS abilities. If you do not, you DON'T. The only way it would be unfair is if you paid as much as I did and you DIDN'T have the choice to those things.
4) Hardcore PvE'ers are NOT the majority of the playerbase for SWG.
PvE'ers who are open to the consequence of PvP as long as they can control how that consequence comes about ARE the majority.
How do I know this? Because the one profession that HAS PvP as a consequence of the player's action (be it leveling or carelessness) is the most sought after profession in the game- Do I really have to name it?
And if I know it then SOE knows it. You think they put those astromech facts together and run those polls for fun?
SOE decided long ago that the majority of the player base is ready to deal with PvP as consequence for their actions and that those who DO PvP are deserving of better rewards. Don't believe me? Then you better re-read that patch your downloading everytime you log into the game.
5) The game already has iconic figures that PvP
Jedi- Iconic figures from SW included in SWG with PvP as a consequence to some of their actions.
Bounty Hunters- Iconic figures from SW included in SWG with PvP as a choice in order to advance.
Smuggler- Yup! You guessed it.
The facts are in. If you are a hardcore PvE'er then from now on it is mostly going to be up to YOU to make sure your game stays PvE. SOE will give you MANY MANY opportunities to keep your game PvE but it will no longer prevent the growth of the game just so the minority can play without having to think about their actions.
That said: Let's talk about the numbers I plugged into GMs proposal- can you NOT see how easy it could be to avoid having your names on the BH terminals?
XmordinX wrote:
It has come to my attention that many smuglers don't wanna end up on the other end of my Scatter pistol? Why I mean realy whats the problem. BH vrs smuggler will be awsome and pretty fair fight since most of you guys can dable professions I can only dream of. So you don't wanna pvp fine then don't get caught. I mean realy whats the problem? "So you die a little" Brando. This is excitting and offers more content and oportunity for pvp which is the most exciting thing about most mmo's! Its not like smugglers don't have a chance to win, infact you guys are probably goona beat the snot outa us since you can master tka, pistoleer, and smuggler. No I think you guys don't realy have to worry its not like were Jedi.....
Unleash The dark Lord!
XmordinX *Master Bounty Hunter* I keep the fancy title to remind me that like my profession this game is starting to suck!
You are mine! I hope you even dare coming after me 
You should bring friends, cause if my 400 max damage geo doesn't bust you up, my VK's will!
Goddamn I want some BH's to fight with.
I want to sit in a bar in some town. Be sipping on some beer and smiling at the ladies, when some BH wanders in and tries his luck against my prowess. I will tear him/her a new one.
I SLEEP with my stun helm on! Even when i'm with the ladies it's on I wish you much luck trying to fillet me
HOTDOG wrote:
Some Cold Hard Facts:
1) You are not being forced into PvP consequences. If anything you are forcing those who are open to PvP to sacrifice so that you can play YOUR playstyle without ever considering those around you.
Some of this is true, some of this is false.
Lets go over some parts of GreenMarine's post.
Smugglers may attempt to find out or reduce the visibility of any player by slicing a bounty hunter terminal. Failure to successfully slice the terminal will result in the smuggler being immediately added to the terminal. Clamps cannot be used in this form of slicing. (This will be a new type of slicing, not wire cutting.) More information on this is available in the slicing section.
This is an active action to change a players visibility. I wonder as to the value of taking this at face value. He says 'any player' and if that means the smuggler who fails to remove his own name... suffers the consequence of having his name placed on the terminals. Pretty odd, but you can't avoid the fact that if a PVE player fails to remove their name, they will most certainly have their name added to the terminal.
Smuggling mission cargo is highly illegal.
- Highly Illegal. A player caught with highly illegal goods will be attacked, the goods confiscated (if the attacked player is defeated), and the player’s visibility will increase. Highly illegal objects cannot be transported via the standard travel system by anyone other than a smuggler. The player must use the new smuggler travel system in order to move highly illegal goods. (This new system will be discussed later.)
So, if a player is caught with any mission cargo, they will have an increase in visibility. This does not hint in any freaking way, that there will be smuggler missions that have no PVP consequence. Lets put another mark for forcing any player who takes a mission having to participate in PVP.
The target for a smuggling mission will only wait so long to receive the delivery. If the player does not deliver the goods within a reasonable amount of time (dependent on mission difficulty), the mission will be lost and the player will receive some visibility.
So, if the smuggler fails the mission for whatever reason. A bug, or a server re-start... any reason at all, they are subject to a PVP consequence. This is also forced upon any smuggler who takes a smuggler mission.
Thunderheart wrote in a different post:
- Ethical decisions that effect the smugglers reputation (basically, the new smuggler missions would be XP based and focused on…well…smuggling So the smuggler would have to “smuggle” phat loot from one NPC to another without getting caught and if the smuggler chose to deliver the item, the get the XP. If they didn’t, well, it would be an XP hit, but they would keep the item…)
If this is still implemented (As we have repeatedly wished for over a year) then missions will be required to progress up the smuggler skill tree as they give 'smuggler xp'. It's also absurd that if a smuggler wants to actually ever smuggle, they have to consent to PvP. This should not be a revamp that provides missions only to those who want to PVP. To limit them in that fashion is bad game design and will likely cause players to quit this profession if not the game.
Manyof the peoplehere, do not want to prevent players from being hunted from player bounty hunters. What they want to prevent is that they will have no option but to agree with that if they wish to ever do a smuggler mission. They are not asking you to sacrifice one freaking thing, yet all of you who are not seeing the problems here, are forcing those PVE players and making them sacrifice THEIR playstyle.
It is bad game design to have a player who has no interest in PvE, to actively check terminals to see and remove their names if possible. A player who wants to be hunted will never have to concern themselves with checking the terminal. That is VERY BAD and is not acceptable as you are FORCING on them, a new step to their day, when something they don't even care to participate in, is added.
2) PvP IS harder than PvE.
This is true.
3) You paid thesame fee to enter the raise but that does NOT guarantee you will win a medal.
This is true.
4) Hardcore PvE'ers are NOT the majority of the playerbase for SWG.
This is true to a point.
The majority are PVE? Yes.
Majority participate solely in PVE? Yes.
A minority of players participates in PVP? Yes.
These are easily proven by looking at the statistics that were posted in a friday feature, regarding faction affiliations and pvp involvement.
5) The game already has iconic figures that PvP
A more accurate way to say this would be the game already has iconic professions that PvP.
The only one that has no real choice in the matter is Jedi and that is justifiable as it is a 'special' profession that the player must unlock.
Bounty Hunters were eventually given the ability to hunt Jedi, this was not a feature included in launch. It is certainliy not required for them to progress and they don't have to waste any time thinking about it if they don't want to. No bounty hunter is forced into PvP combat. They can do investigation missions without PvP easily and as often as they wish.
