Smuggler Archive
Thread: A Proposal on Smuggler Weapons, or the Lack Thereof
I don't think were selling the novices short.
My fear is making it overpowered.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:I don't think were selling the novices short.
My fear is making it overpowered.
With a 1/6 of the Master effect between the two, you will eventually do one or the other, which is why I suggest 4 stages - this will give enough benefit to Novices to make it worth their while, while overpowering Master less. I would say 3 stages, but that would (by SWG convention) mean the mid point came at teir 3, which is less than desirable.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:How about just limit it to certifications in novice professions. So that means any weapon certification gained in Marksman or Brawler. Nothing higher than that.Anything above those would be considered too risky, as they tend to be advanced weapons where tinkering would not be directly allowed due to the weapons complexity.
That's exactly what I was leaning towards Caylin. Only pistols that would be available in marksman tree from novice marksman to pistols 4. This would exclude rifles and carbines and any elite weaponry.
Jez3an wrote:
I agree that voting on this issue is a flawed way of making a decision.
Comment WRT the number of Personal Weapons:
It is necessary to allow a Smuggler to have more than one of these, in order to allow them to Experiment with a new weapon and see if it works well. Possibly allowing the creation of a Personally Sliced Weapon as you wish but only allowing its use if it is the only such weapon the Smuggler has? Also, are Jedi allowed to have more than 1 Lightsaber (arguably the nearest equivalent the Personal Weapon idea has in existing items)? Personal Weapons will be regarded as over complex if the Smuggler runs too much of a risk of destroying an already useful weapon when "upgrading" an existing one, unless you allow multiple Personal Weapons (at least temporarily) to allow for experimentation failure.
I agree, to an extent. The only problem that arises is that you could then (theoretically) have a stockpile of personally modified weapons, as I do not know of a way to limit the number of weapons a player has (other than inventory space).
Possibly allow tinkering to only happen within the vicinity of a personal "crafting station" that can only be dropped in a residence? This would keep anyone who does not have a house from modifying their weapon though. These would have to be treated like a vendor with respect to only allowing one to be created per Smuggler (could create a new one if you destroyed the old one) by an option on the radial menu of the structure you are residing in. I think this then becomes too complicated, and would require changes to too many existing systems.
Maybe a skill modifier in the Dirty Fighting Tree that allows the Smuggler to posess tinkered weapons? At Novice you receive 1, at DF 4 you receive a second, and at Master a third?
Comment WRT spreading the Personal Weapon ability across the width of the entire Smuggler tree: I disagree with this course of action, mainly as I don't see why a Spice maker or deal maker should have any ability to modify a weapon. Keep the modifications within slicing and the use within Dirty fighting, and I feel it will work just as well (indeed better if larger steps are taken between modification stages).
The actual ability to do the tinkering could be given at Slicing 2 (after all, taht is when the ability to slice weapons is given) but I still hold firm on having the number of times to be able to tinker be directly related to a skill modifier spread throughout the entire tree. If not then the Slicing tree would be extremely overpowered in granting the ability to both slice the weapon and then still be able to tinker with it, all in the same tree. Even if you put the ability to use the weapons in Dirty Fighting it allows the majority of the ability to improve a weapon residing in half of the profession, which is not good for any type of combat balance.
Comment WRT the Personally Sliced Weapon and the proposed Bounties System: This item should be *VERY* illegal. A possible requirement of Underworld of an equivalent to conceal the items true nature would be good.
I agree here, but then that brings in that the ability to tinker with the weapon is related to Underworld, meaning the skill modifier could easily be spread out over that tree as well, instead of having yet another skill based on "hiding" the illegal item. If you already bring three trees into play with the same skill, then it is not overbalanced to bring in the final tree to make certain it is a well-rounded system, and not placing the best parts with relation to combat within one or two trees.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
How about just limit it to certifications in novice professions. So that means any weapon certification gained in Marksman or Brawler. Nothing higher than that.
Anything above those would be considered too risky, as they tend to be advanced weapons where tinkering would not be directly allowed due to the weapons complexity.
Nah, I don't like that idea. Let people modify whatever they can use. It makes everything more unique and it's not really overpowered.
When it comes down to it, the only real differences between the existing system and the system I'm pushing for are that you get a slight bonus on the percentage increase (maybe 10% or so over a sliec/powerup combo)and a moderate boost of certain skill mods (like I said before, up to 20 points or so, with no more than 10 in any given skill). Well, you also get to decide how much extra speed or damage you get, but most people usually just slice 4-5 weapons and use the one with the slice they like best.
We're not exactly asking for the dawn of superweapons here. Most people probably won't invest in Slicing or Master Smuggler to pick this up, because they can get some skilltapes and legendary components to accomplish the same or even better results. Remember, the BEST results would be from the Master box, and we all know that most skillpoints invested in Smuggler do NOTHING to help you as a combatant. the powergamers you're worried about would most likely retain actual combat skills rather than invest in a branch of weapon-mod skills, or a profession which is 1/4 (and under this proposal, maybe an extra 1/4)combat.
What I worry about is the possibility that people could become Master Smuggler, then drop it while retaining their modded weaponry. THAT's what would need to be prevented, and I would hope that it could be coded that as soon as you surrendered your Smuggler skillpoints, you would lose your cert for the modded weapons.
Xeranx wrote:
That's exactly what I was leaning towards Caylin. Only pistols that would be available in marksman tree from novice marksman to pistols 4. This would exclude rifles and carbines and any elite weaponry.
Sorry, but if it is done this way then it would have to be all of Marksman and all of Brawler. Not every Smuggler relies on pistols, and to limit them in that way makes it unfair to those who pursue other avenues of combat, as they would not be able to use their Smuggler skills to better their preferred weapon. Eliminating the ability for elite profession weapons could be perfectly fine though.
Slightly off to a different topic, what do you all think of allowing the possibility of a Smuggler to enhance the strength of a weapon enough to gain low level armor piercing (AP1) by way of two tinkering sessions?