Smuggler Archive
Thread: Spice: Smuggle or Craft?
Scoooter
Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:49 am
#66
TomoRainer wrote:
If we're not going to endorse a system that involves creating a robust spice market, why bother at all? If, on the other hand, we're going to create one where someone else can turn our spice into a sturdier product, why not have that someone be us? Certainly we're more appropriate than docs (what, are they raiding the morphine cabinet?) or chefs (er.. weed brownies?).
I agree 100% that smuggling needs to be integral to the spice market. However, we also need to make certain that market will be a viable one, a system where spice is worth the time it takes to acquire and sell it. I haven't seen any such system yet from anyone in favor of pure smuggling, and until I do, I'm going to be very distressed about my brother smugglers advocating a process by which we smuggle a product no one will want.
Well the CU will do more for that as buffs become less important since they are lowing their effect. People will look at spices more to augment their abilities.
Whether they want or don't want the spices will depend on the CU, not how we attain it.
People are discussing jerehow the spice is attained...not its abilities which is what will determine the market niche
Message Edited by Scoooter on 01-14-2005 09:51 AM
DragonSnack
Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:05 am
#67
OK I give up. I'll modify my craft stance.
If I, as a Smuggler, also havecrafting ability then I'd like to be able to craft the spices.
But with out crafting then I'll settle for smuggling them.
But the delivery fees are gonnacost somebody. After all If I don't have the cash how can I payformy haram?
Add on note: there should be nothing that I can't smuggle and that includes the Emporer and rocks from Tat in case someone wants to make a rock garden for the Emporer to play in.
Malcolm_CaKre
Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:09 am
#68
I've mentioned already that I'd rather smuggle it than craft it....
But I want to clarify, that doing only NPC to NPC smuggling would just exile us to solo play, exactly like Jedi with their grinding requirements. As long as we can smuggle (or deal, if you will) to PC's, we have a part of the community, and a reason to interact with our fellow players. Yes, I realize that dealing is a different activity than smuggling, per se. But I'd really rather smuggle to people,by asloppy definition of smuggling, than have a really tight smuggling mission that only NPCs and I are part of.
mal
IndySWG
Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:57 am
#69
Malcolm_CaKre wrote:
...that doing only NPC to NPC smuggling would just exile us to solo play, exactly like Jedi with their grinding requirements. As long as we can smuggle (or deal, if you will) to PC's, we have a part of the community, and a reason to interact with our fellow players. ...
QFE.
Yes, this is why if we get smuggler missions I hope they somehow involve PCs. Something like I posted above (quoted below) would allow for NPC and Missions systems to also play off of PLAYER requests and the player economy.
{Player_A requests 30 units of Spice X from The Smuggler}
{Smuggler goes to his crime boss}
"Jaba I need to get my hands on some spice"
"Oh? what kind of spice?"
"Spice X"
"haha .. good stuff. How much you need?"
"well my buyer wants 30 units"
{new quest/mission for 30 units is created for the smuggler - difficulty set based on quantity requested}
"ok kid... I know of a shipment ..."
{quest is run - spice obtained}
{smuggler avoids scans until buyer can pick up the goods}
Again, I know this is a off-the-top-of-my-head idea ... but perhaps with some polish. The point is that Player to Player supply/demand should be at the heart of it ... even if it then requires NPC missions/quests to fullfill the order (which to me sounds pretty dang cool).
TomoRainer
Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:06 am
#70
Nicolas_Frost wrote:
TomoRainer wrote:
Question for those who want a purely smuggling-based system.
How do you propose to ensure the market for spice stays healthy when all the spice in the galaxy will be exactly the same?
I thought it already was...
It IS already the same--and you remember what happened? It got undercut. And undercut. And undercut. Exactly like every other item in the game where there's no difference in quality. If all spice is identical, it will be a race to see who can sell their time the cheapest. Even if the CURB turns spice into a desired item, the kind of thing people always want onhand, its price will be constantly depressed by those trying to break into the market and those who say they're trying to help people, not rip them off (some of whom will actually mean it), until anyone looking to actually make money from spice may as well go hunting instead, because it'll end up more profitable than trying to compete with the undercutters.
The one thing I can think of that a pure smuggling spice system will have to maintain prices is the fact you'll have to invest real time to attain any spice. Doubtlessly the value of our time will be underestimated by some, forcing everyone to do so, but it will mean that anyone all but giving it away will be bought out quickly, leaving room for other vendors to sell at more reasonable prices. It will also mean those devoted to keeping a well-stocked vendor will see more traffic than the hot cheap vendor that sells out in a hurry; there's little more frustrating than a shop that never has what you want, and people will pay for the convenience of going to a place where they know they'll always be able to get whatever spice they want.
However, there's only so many hours in a day, and so there will be swift limits as to how much spice any one smuggler can deal. Combine this with the fact it'll be identical to everyone else's, and that being a consumable, people will be hesitant to pay too much for it, and I think we'd find ourselves with a market we'll be complaining about all over again shortly after the revamp.
TomoRainer
Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:36 am
#71
Wow.. now that is a way good idea.
I think the market on that would end up very analogous to resources: good current stuff will sell for a good price; great old stuff will sell for a super great price; a serious spice dealer can pay well for a super spawn and horde it in the hopes the prices will mature; the quality of your stock will depend on keeping up with what's going on and jumping when the good stuff comes along. Most importantly, a real market would exist and a savvy businessman could act to affect the value of his wares.
I would kill for an idea like this. Excuse me while I sit in awe of its perfection for a few minutes.
I think the market on that would end up very analogous to resources: good current stuff will sell for a good price; great old stuff will sell for a super great price; a serious spice dealer can pay well for a super spawn and horde it in the hopes the prices will mature; the quality of your stock will depend on keeping up with what's going on and jumping when the good stuff comes along. Most importantly, a real market would exist and a savvy businessman could act to affect the value of his wares.
I would kill for an idea like this. Excuse me while I sit in awe of its perfection for a few minutes.
NastyYak
Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:49 pm
#73
[quote]
For me, my ideal view of Smuggling spice for players would see the player themselves aproach an NPC and order the spice through them. This would then put a up a Spice Smuggling mission on the mission terminals (or wherever we get our missions from); The level of spice that was ordered and your standing with the faction the player went to for it would determin the required skill level and faction standing for the Smuggler to see and take the mission. This is however, my view.
[/quote]
I completely agree with this. I have been a smuggler since the launch, but still I never was a master smuggler. Why? Because I did not want my character to be a drug crafter. So sure I sell some to clients, but I don't make it... I happen to know the right people, and that is what corresponds the most to my view of the smuggler.
So my slices are less good than some others because I'm not master, and I'm 4440 for many months now, but this is only because the current system does not allow to be a master smuggler without also being a drug crafter.
This is an overly seen image, but think about Solo, did he make spice? hell no! He sometimes went to Kessel get some, he often carried some for other people, but that's about it....
/my 2 cents
For me, my ideal view of Smuggling spice for players would see the player themselves aproach an NPC and order the spice through them. This would then put a up a Spice Smuggling mission on the mission terminals (or wherever we get our missions from); The level of spice that was ordered and your standing with the faction the player went to for it would determin the required skill level and faction standing for the Smuggler to see and take the mission. This is however, my view.
[/quote]
I completely agree with this. I have been a smuggler since the launch, but still I never was a master smuggler. Why? Because I did not want my character to be a drug crafter. So sure I sell some to clients, but I don't make it... I happen to know the right people, and that is what corresponds the most to my view of the smuggler.
So my slices are less good than some others because I'm not master, and I'm 4440 for many months now, but this is only because the current system does not allow to be a master smuggler without also being a drug crafter.
This is an overly seen image, but think about Solo, did he make spice? hell no! He sometimes went to Kessel get some, he often carried some for other people, but that's about it....
/my 2 cents
Cloudchasing
Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:57 am
#74
NastyYak wrote:
[quote]
For me, my ideal view of Smuggling spice for players would see the player themselves aproach an NPC and order the spice through them. This would then put a up a Spice Smuggling mission on the mission terminals (or wherever we get our missions from); The level of spice that was ordered and your standing with the faction the player went to for it would determin the required skill level and faction standing for the Smuggler to see and take the mission. This is however, my view.
[/quote]
I completely agree with this. I have been a smuggler since the launch, but still I never was a master smuggler. Why? Because I did not want my character to be a drug crafter. So sure I sell some to clients, but I don't make it... I happen to know the right people, and that is what corresponds the most to my view of the smuggler.
So my slices are less good than some others because I'm not master, and I'm 4440 for many months now, but this is only because the current system does not allow to be a master smuggler without also being a drug crafter.
This is an overly seen image, but think about Solo, did he make spice? hell no! He sometimes went to Kessel get some, he often carried some for other people, but that's about it....
/my 2 cents
Ok Nasty, think about it this way. Ok, I hate crafting. I mean, I HATE it. I ahve a alt that I'm trying to grind up to weapsmith and I am taking forever because I HATE CRAFTING. anyway, here's how I get around the whole spices/drugs route in my head and maybe it will help you become M Smuggler too. Ok, just because you have the Spices line, or Just because you are Master Smuggler does NOT mean that you are a drug maker. What it means really is that you understand and are knowledgable about these things, it does NOT mean that you make them. Han (and I'm really tired of using him as an example, so this will be my LAST reference to him) may not have made the drugs he transported, but you can bet your a$$ that he knew whether it was quality product or not. Because the higher the quality, the higher chance someone else is looking for it, or the higher penalty if he gets caught. Think about that. I am Master Smuggler, however, that doesn't mean that I am a Drug Pusher, just that I know the difference between Coke and Crack and Heroin at a moments glance, which goes right into the Underworld skills type things
DayWalkerRori
Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:05 am
#75
Im currently a BH/TKM Ingame but, I was a Master Smuggler and went BH basiclly for content (Hunting Jedi) and I will return back to smuggler IF they give the Profession some Life as they say..So, I really would like to give some oppions on the Smuggler Revamp if youll dont mind....
With reguards to Spice i fully agree they should be smuggled and not crafted (personally id rather take a RL beating than craft lol ) I propose a system thats based on 2 systems with 2 different lvls of Risk/Reward/Payoff
1 (Low Risk) NPCs in Cantinas spread all over the galaxy..You simply find one of these NPCs and buy some crates of Spice to Resale..I would have these locations change (maybe with the change of the FS Village) This is a Underworld deal and the NPC dealers should change (Relocate/Hide) to stay out view from the Empire... Your a Smuggler it is your job to locate dealers ( Giving a real feel to smuggleing)
2 (High Risk) Select NPCs located at Jabbas, Vals & Nymsgive a Mission to obtain Spice...Basicly you Hijack a Load of spice from one of the other Factions (Ex: If you take the mission at Jabbas you would have to attack a Val or Nym Smuggler to get the load of spice thus looseing Faction of that party) You could make theses ground and Space...Gound you would need to kill the party and loot the crates..Space you would need to kill the suport fighters, disable the cargo ship and dock to get the crates of spice...
I would also totally take out the Spice Line andadd it to the Underworld branchNPCs at Nov Smuggler and HighRisk Missions at Underworld4
I also would Increase the Imperial scans and expan this the space...If caught with contraban you should be givin 3 options..Surrender the contraban stuff, run & fight or bribe with a Payoff...
Todo this you would need 2 lvls of Spice Low & High end..Basiclly they would be a greater or lesser stat differance in the Spice
(Ex: NPC spice would be +XX for Xmins with downer and Mission Spice would be a far greater Number w/o Downer)
Message Edited by DayWalkerRori on 01-18-2005 08:12 AM
Waarangel
Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:35 am
#76
I agree with all of these ideas. I will add this. If we are to continue spicing, I would suggest designer spice. I am sure it has been mentioned before. But why not have variety like the weaponsmith? Certain random elements produce different results. What this means is that let's say I discover a really nice combination and don't share it. Well, people will come to me. Gives me an edge in the business.
And with the combat balance, perhaps spices will be useful once again. I mean, imagine a 3k HAM hit for ten minutes? Something ultra rare that someone happens to figure out how to mix. Again, this is assuming we stay chemists.
I also like the idea of smuggling in space, but unless PvP is fixed up there, I wouldn't want to be pulled overt in any way.
As for ground smuggling, yes, lots needs done. I won't add to the thousands of ideas already here. Just sound my support.
dlc3007
Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:39 am
#78
Am I the only person in the whole game who _doesn't_ hate the spice crafting tree? While I naturally agree that there should be more 'smuggling' associated with the tree, I don't really have a problem with making spice.
Just think of your friendly, neighborhood Meth lab: frequently it is the same person gathering the ingredients, making the crap, and then selling it. Not that I have any personal experience or anything... really... there was a article in the paper recently.... really. 
Anyway, as with everything smuggler, there is really no risk associated with spices any more than there is with slicing. Never had a factory or house raided, never been arrested for transporting, etc. But this is no reason for the whole spice tree should be removed.
Just like slicing, if you don’t like it, don’t do it, charge extreme prices, whatever. Can it be better? Sure. Does it need to be nuked? No.